A Hurting Child's Countdown to the Holidays: A time of Joy or a time of Fear?

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome to Real Talk. I am Ann and I am Denise. Denise, I am so glad that you can continue to be with us while Tina is taking a little bit of a break and taking care of her mom and herself during a very difficult time. So our thoughts and prayers are with her, but Denise is going to stay with us, however, and we are so glad to have you. I'm excited to be here. You are in a great addition to the podcast. I mean, everything that you have to offer to the podcast is so deep and I love your authenticity. I know this is great. This is exactly what people need to hear and I've heard that from so many people, so I know that we're kind of going in the right direction. I feel yeah. Yeah, denise, you recently shared a TikTok that really got me right in the gut and in the heart. That 30-second TikTok sparked this entire episode. So do you want to share a little bit about that TikTok and what the meaning behind it was?

Speaker 2: 1:20

Yeah, so I was scrolling on LinkedIn and I follow some of the school sites and stuff because, you know, being a keynote speaker, kind of that's my audience. And one of the things that they posted and these are teachers that post, you know, all in the educational and it was about counting down to the days till they get the break. Like them, and the kids were counting down the days till we get break and then all we have to do is count down from that break to the next break. And the first thought that came to my head because this is what I thought, you know, when I was younger is like I'm not counting down to that. You know, kids like me, we have a whole different perspective on things because we're counting down days but we are counting down till you know we won't have the safety of school. And then we're counting down the days because we won't see those favorite teachers that make us feel, you know good about ourselves and calm and things. And we're counting down the days knowing that in so many days we are going to have to face chaos alone.

Speaker 1: 2:34

Right, the safety is no longer there.

Speaker 2: 2:37

That's correct. So, our, you know, when I was growing up, that's, that's, I hated it and I, you know, I really recognize that when I was about 12, I think I was in sixth grade I realized and recognized just how impactful that was. I mean, I had it when I was younger, but I think once, once I was in sixth grade, that safety net really changed for me, and I had it when I was about 12 and I was just so, so, so, so young and so old, and I'm like, you know, I'm not going to be able to keep it up and I'm not even with my mom, and so those days were hard, you know, and they just got the same way progressively, even years following it where it was just really difficult to you know, be excited for break.

Speaker 1: 3:24

You know, because I wasn't. I would count the hours until break and I would have a paper and I had figured out how many hours there were until break and how many hours there were until break was over. Oh yeah, and I would like, at the end of each day, it would feel like this satisfaction of being able to cross off you know 24 hours versus you know one.

Speaker 2: 3:59

Yeah Day.

Speaker 1: 4:00

Yeah, it just made me feel like I was that much closer to it.

Speaker 2: 4:05

Yeah, you know, I the counting down is the hours were probably that last day of school when you're looking at the time sticking and it's going, you know, from nine o'clock to 10 o'clock, and here it is one o'clock, then two o'clock, as like you know, and then you're counting down the five minute increments and you know, and like that, that bell rings and it's just like a pound in your chest because now it's, I got to go, I got to face all this by myself.

Speaker 1: 4:33

So you know, it's interesting because it starts in schools, these now, where they start contacting families and they start, you know, trying to set up food and supports for kids and trying to make sure that at least that part of it is taken care of, and asking families do you need food, do you need gift cards, whatever you need? And at least the schools here I know do that. So they're trying to set up a safety in some regards.

Speaker 2: 5:06

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:06

For the kids? Yeah, because they know how difficult it is for kids to just go home and that rug is pulled out from under them that they've been relying on and getting breakfast and things at school. Right, you know, I mean, it's a big fear.

Speaker 2: 5:20

Yeah, and absolutely so. There's twofold in that. You have the kids who fear not getting the nutrition. Well, you know, having your meals, having that type of arena, but there's the other, you know, arena of kids that were abused, and so you know there's nobody calling on us and there's nobody recognizing us. So, yeah, I mean, that's crazy. And they do have that here, which is really nice. You know they have, like you know, a drive. I mean Anchor House has a drive right now. They have their drive. For you know, if you want to provide side dish, something like that, so that you know kids have this, kids have that, but yeah, there's that.

Speaker 1: 6:00

There's that whole other side too about the countdown, for you know, kids like us, so yeah, I mean where I'm very thankful for the people in this area that think about and people have been posting on Facebook about trying to help other kids and things Like that and to be aware. So I mean there's that part of it. But I totally agree with you. I mean, the fear aspect of it goes out the roof when it comes to being left alone. Yeah, it makes me think of you and even Don, and I mean look at Don and his, the podcast that we had with him and yourself where you just rely on you know, the hand on your back, or that little you know just making sure that you're okay, or that teacher that takes you out to the car and puts their hand on you just to get that check in with you. Yeah, and it's not there for up to two weeks during Christmas break.

Speaker 2: 7:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. It's like you know, yeah, you don't have, you know I would go to school and I would have that to look forward to. So what got me to the next day, every day, was looking forward to that. So it was like my lifeline. You know what I mean and so, and what's interesting is that you know you thought about that as a kid and it was difficult to get through and I said those years, like I've said before, where it's like, oh, when I get to a certain age, I'm not going to worry about it, when I get to a certain age, I won't have to think about this. Which things shifted, obviously, you're right, I think, as kids, but I think we still cope with the not having that thing to look forward to. You know what I mean. Even when we have great people around us, there's still that hurt, that pain of as an older adult, not having, you know that, looking forward to that holiday and I love fun, I love Thanksgiving, but there's that piece where it's like you're reminded of, you know, that childhood you wish you had, which would have, you know, developed into this adult. You know, adult celebrations, adult family time, adult, this. You know what I mean it's not just stuck into your past of being younger, it's grown with you and it's evolved where you know. Those different aspects of counting down the days are there too. Like I count down the days now for all other reasons.

Speaker 1: 8:40

I mean the same but all other reasons you know, and associations are made when we're a kid that I think carries on into our adulthood with some of those memories that we had. So it's kind of you know it's, it's, it's good, it's bittersweet, yeah, I guess you could say because we're making new memories with our families that we have today, but yet that memory of what happened when we were younger is still there.

Speaker 2: 9:11

Oh for sure. And and yeah, I mean even up until my adulthood, until I was able to have the courage to disconnect from my family, I didn't look forward to the holidays even then, because it was constant chaos, like somebody was always fighting and you know people would leave the house cursing and whatever. So you didn't have that warmth and togetherness that you know the holidays bring for mostly everybody else. It's like nope. And you know, as an adult again, you're counting down the days, like can we just get through one of these? Like I'm not looking forward to this, can I just do this? You know what I mean, right?

Speaker 1: 9:53

So yeah, when, when I worked in the jail system with the moms, I mean there was a couple of things that was going on during the holidays. First of all, nobody writes dads. I mean the dad aspect of the people in jail was very revealing to me. They send, they want their moms and their kids to be remembered, but the presence in the cards and those kinds of things are just not being sent out to the dads. The whole entire dad aspect of it is completely missing. And also one of the cool things that I got to be a part of and I don't know if people realize that the Salvation Army picks up so much toys and toys for tots. I mean, they pick up so many toys at toys for tots that they actually have some left over. So what we would do is right before, you know, christmas, like a couple of days before Christmas, a bunch of us from the jail ministry would go over to toys for tots, load up our cars. We had the addresses of all the kids from the women that were in jail who wanted their kids to have a Christmas that would not have one otherwise, and we just went around all of their houses and giving out these toys and toys for tots was wonderful. I mean, they just knew who we were. They just said here, take as much as you want. We got things that were age appropriate for each child on the list and we just would get to celebrate Christmas with each one of them and watch them be in awe and so excited that they got these things, because you know, they didn't even have their parent anymore. Their mom mostly they didn't have for that holiday. And that brings me to. You know, you just don't understand People, don't realize what somebody is going through during the holidays. I mean, you just automatically think it's a child, they should be excited Santa's coming, right, and that's not something that everybody, every child, gets to really experience, right, like maybe the average child, and that's something that we have to really remember.

Speaker 2: 12:31

Right, right, yeah, there's, there's, yeah, there's so many kids out there that don't have you know, and it just hurts, even from like thinking About that today. It just kind of hurts thinking that there are so many kids that don't have that ability to look forward to knowing that all the things that they ask for are going to be there or, yeah, like you said, your parent being there. It's a difficult time.

Speaker 1: 12:57

Yeah, when I was the director of a battered woman shelter, we had all kinds of kids in there and it was really interesting as we went into the holidays to watch. And you know what too is there's a lot of abuse. The abuse picks up during the holidays. So, like what you were talking about about losing your safety net, it shows in the shelters. Yeah, because there was an uptick in women and children wanting to leave. And when you want to leave the situation, just wanting to leave the situation, it increases the abuse. So, yeah, and then when you do, finally, and you end up in a shelter with nothing but the clothes on your back, a lot of them, including the small children, you know, you really have to try to make them feel as safe as possible when they have come out of a situation that aren't safe and that's one of the things that I got out of your podcast is with, you know, the teachers and how big their role is. I just had a meeting with my son's teacher and I'll tell you it's about connection and right now, because something happened at school and he's made this association, because he's autistic, he doesn't feel safe at school and that relationship that he had with his teacher has kind of been. You know, there's a I don't want to say sever, that's pretty extreme, but the relationship between a teacher and a child and he's got a good home, yeah, has really affected him and it's transferred into having problems at home. Oh yeah. So I mean it is so important the amount of safety that they feel at school and home and the role of a teacher, because that child could be coming from a shelter, that child could be coming from a newly you know, foster home or whatever, and you have no idea what is going on with that child. You know, what is really unfortunate is that teachers today have so much on their plate already and then they've got 30 kids plus in a classroom. There's so much more needs with the kids today and to try to connect with them and to know what their needs are and I believe that teachers' hearts are in the right place, but I think it's just difficult for them to try to make that connection. And I know my son is all about connection and if you can't make that connection with him or that association that breaking connection has been made, to try to get back to that is almost impossible and that's what we have found. But I mean it is critical going into holidays as these kids feel safe and they're losing that safety from their teachers.

Speaker 2: 16:19

Yeah, and that's where, like I talk about the 30 seconds, because you're right, I mean teachers have a lot going on today. I mean it's difficult and it's scary even to me as an adult to see so many turnovers with teachers, not just in our, you know, in our district, but just in general you know how much. And for me that's scary even at my age now, because I remember me back at that age and you know I remember all the feelings I got with these teachers. And so my 30 seconds is when a teacher friend said to me you know, the same as what you're saying is like it's very hard to connect. How do you connect when you have 30 kids? How do you connect when these kids are shifting? How do you make that connection when you have not just 30 of them but you also have, you know, the academics you're going to teach, especially what's going on, how things are changing, what you're allowed to do, what you're not allowed to do. And the really big importance is those 30 seconds. You really don't need that like a lot of time and it goes both ways. You could do 30 seconds of positivity or 30 seconds of negativity and they can be impactful either way and a lot of times teachers don't know that they've made this impact, but every little thing that they would say could be so big compared to the time it actually took them to say it. I mean I'll go back to that teacher who, you know, introduced me to someone as her, denise. I mean that was simple, but you know what that got me through the holidays At least that, because that happened right before Thanksgiving and I had come out of Anchorhouse and I was being sent back to my family and that was chaotic and everything was going on and I just kept thinking about that moment every time, like things were going wrong, as they always do during these holidays, and I just kept reliving in that moment and it was like I'm going to get there here's day one, but I still have her in back of my head and the feeling. So it's just those little things that sometimes can carry a kid through break. You know what I mean Because they have the more of an anticipation of coming back. So they're, you know, crossing off their calendars or something like, oh, I can't wait to get back to this, I can't wait to get back to this. So, again, when my you know friend said, we just don't know that we have that time. I'm like you're doing it every day. You are making somebody have a 30 second moment. Just kind of make sure it's in the positive, because they you'll never know what it is that you say that will be the impact on the kid. You don't. Obviously there are things that you can say to make them feel you know in that 30 second moment. So I've given an example before too. Like you know, when a kid's missed, like they've missed school, just having a teacher say I missed you, not we missed you as a class, it's identifying that the teacher herself, whether or not they really did or not, that kid having a teacher say I missed you, that's as simple as it could be, but that's like huge to that kid. Do you know what I mean? Right? So, especially these times with the holidays, when they come back in, that's a simple thing to say to a kid I've missed you. And it almost, like you know, make some block out all that anxiety that they had from the past, you know, from that past week off, because now it's like somebody missed me, somebody did this, somebody did that. So, yeah, I mean it's teachers are. You know, they're the lifeline for kids who are in situations of abuse and going home to something that these teachers probably don't know. I'm not sure that they are privy to a lot of the things that are going on and maybe school doesn't even know, but they have this impact to technically. In a way, they're raising these kids because nobody else is. You know what I mean and you'll never know that. So it's sad and scary to think that their turnover especially, you know, when you think of the holidays and things like that is just scary.

Speaker 1: 20:47

You know, it reminds me of what you said in one of the podcasts about how you used to carry pictures in your wallet, or you know of movie stars or whatever, and you would pretend. Well, I would play out this whole scenario and it normally there were some actresses or actors or whatever that I would play as my parents, but lots of times it was teachers, and I would have this whole thing in my head. Oh, yeah, yeah, you know, this is mom, this is dad, and I would think about that at night as I was going to sleep and for some reason, it would fulfill that part within me that needed that.

Speaker 2: 21:30

Yeah, I see, that's crazy. We're all so much alike. That's exactly what it is Like. I envision what you know what it was like for if you, you know where they were your parents, this is how Thanksgiving would go. If they were your parents, this is how this day would go. I mean down to the detail of oh, I would love my room to be like this. Oh it, you know it sounds crazy and I used to be so afraid to share that knowing that you've had the same thing has made it easier for me, because I don't feel, as you know, you kind of feel crazy thinking that way. But yeah, like during the holidays.

Speaker 1: 22:06

I was embarrassed by it. Even as a kid I was embarrassed by it. It was something that I wouldn't have told anybody.

Speaker 2: 22:12

Oh, I never did. I never did either. It's, you know, it's nobody would understand. You know they would think you're crazy, you know. Yeah, I had good friends that knew what we're going on, but of course they're my age, but they never knew that, they never understood. I don't think they could understand even if we did say that. But knowing, you know, even talking as adults, and you saying that and like over here going, oh my God, I did the same thing, this is crazy, you know.

Speaker 1: 22:44

Yeah, you know, one thing that is a little different than a lot of the kids that we're talking about is I had the material stuff I did. I mean, I in some ways was showered with material things during Christmas and birthday and I honestly think that that was her way of trying to love me. I mean, I don't think that connection wasn't there with us and her ability for us to be able to sit down and have conversations was not there. We were not close, but she liked giving things physically. I think it was just kind of that thing that she would do and to make me, it was her love language or it made her feel less guilty, I'm not really sure. Yeah, or disconnect, but I the material things weren't, that were there, and that's another thing that you have that you can't. Just because somebody might have the material things doesn't mean that everything is great in that house.

Speaker 2: 23:49

Yeah, and I think people associate that though they're like, oh you, you get so much. Or you know, I had extended family who, you know my grandmother would, you know, make a big deal out of getting me all these things, so they thought I was spoiled. Well, I don't know about you, but it was like Christmas time, you know, when you ask Santa for something, I secretly was saying I just want a mom and dad, I just want a mom, like that was my, you know, christmas wish. Like you know. Oh, of course you have things that you want materialistic. I mean, we're human, we want different things. But dang, that was up there on my list and obviously no one knew. You can't tell anybody. But like there's this yearning to say, okay, you know, if you're real, please give me this or whatever. You know how it is. But yeah, I mean I was the same way, I mean I had everything materialistic and I think to myself even to this day. Then I thought the same thing was I don't care about anything. If I could trade all this material and all these things to have a safe home, to have a mom who loved me, I would do it and heartbeat like I didn't need anything. So yeah, it's kind of crazy.

Speaker 1: 25:02

I had this every going into Christmas. I've already shared in many podcasts about my dad because he had died two days before Thanksgiving and I was 11 and you know it's just. It's such a weird contrast, I guess of you're supposed to be thankful, but you just lost the most precious thing, the most connected I had ever been with anybody I had lost when I was 11. You were very close with your dad I was I mean he was. As I wrote in my poem recently that you probably read, was that he was quiet. He was not that person that was very talkative, but that connection between the two of us there was like a kindred. There was something that was there between us that we could just sit next to each other after he got home from work and we just shared quiet. Well, you read the newspaper, drink a beer, watch TV, and I would just sit there with him and I said in my poem you know, I would trace the tattoo on his arm and we just had a really special bond between the two of us. That I don't even. He was just a really special man. And of course, then the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, which is the day that we're taping this yeah, it was rainy, you know this is a rainy day here where I am. I mean, it's just rainy all day long here and it just takes me back and I don't think I've ever had a Thanksgiving since without me remembering what happened that Thanksgiving and what was really strange about it. There was so much that went along with it. But one of the things I remember is my family and I think that they I don't know why they just cooked and tried really hard to do everything the same. I was downstairs watching the parade, they were upstairs cooking for Thanksgiving two days after he was gone, and they were actually while they're cooking, talking about funeral arrangements and things like that, which was, I mean, it's the strangest association, and I don't think. And then, on top of it, my sister was sent away, and so my and we had a bond in that we were both living in that house and we were both trying to survive, yeah. And then when she was no longer there and I never saw her again until we went and visited her in a foster home in New Jersey, and then we never saw her again until we were way adults I mean, we were meant the adults kept us apart on purpose. I mean it's quite the story. And whenever I do these podcasts I'll tell you what I feel, like this dedication to her, like that's why I want to do this, like I want to help the people out there like my sister not just the people like that went through stuff that I did, but like you, I mean you remind me of her in a way. I mean it's just like these people that are just kind of tossed aside. And you know, the holidays are coming up and there was not a Thanksgiving or a Christmas where I have not thought of her, because she's still not doing well, doesn't have family, has distanced herself to the point where and I think that she has blamed me for a lot of the things that happened to her too, even though I was 11 and she was eight you know, of course it wasn't my fault, right, but a lot of that blame stayed with me. It stayed with me too. I actually did blame myself for a lot of it, weirdly at 11. But there's not a holiday that doesn't go by where I don't think of her, and there's that whole. You know, there's that little bit of pain that's still there because I know what she's going through and because of the adults in the room and our family and the lies and the abuse and I could go on and on, but I mean it just a lot of pain, and she's still feeling it, and so that, so I feel it too.

Speaker 2: 30:02

Yeah, I can't imagine. I can't imagine. Yeah, that's it's um, that's sad that you know she had to be put in that situation and but I mean it's obvious. You know I understand feeling guilt about a lot of things, so but you know it's not your fault. I mean you are a child too. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 30:22

I think kids do blame themselves for a lot of the things that are going on in the house If their parents split up. Um, I mean, these are all scenarios that we think of going into the holidays and it's for really any day of the year, but it's always worse during the holidays. But I mean, if your parents are splitting up, if there's a job loss, if there's, you know, money problems, whatever it is, and the children are feeling it, I guarantee that to some degree they're feeling some blame. Did you feel blame with what was going on with you, with your situation, with your parents?

Speaker 2: 31:06

Yeah, I mean well, yeah, with my mom. Yeah, because I grew up being told that you know. So there were plenty of holidays where you know this is your fault or you know you did something and so it's aggravating. Yeah, but yeah, especially, like I said, when you're told it so much and you have to think to yourself okay, overthink what. What did I do? What could have been the reason for this or for that? I still do Like, I still like think about that. You know what I mean. So that's why I was going to say to like one of the other reasons why I made that video too, with in regards to teachers. You know, I think growing up and I don't know if you thought about this, but every holiday and even summer breaks, you're always wondering is someone thinking about me, is somebody worried about you? Know how I'm doing over the Christmas break, over the holiday break? And that's hard, especially because when those moments where you're being blamed, you just want to think in your mind someone's worried about me right now because I'm going through this, like, are they thinking about me? So, yeah, I think it's definitely had its moments and the blame was usually on me, and no matter my age too. That was the thing. You know. It was something always to do with me, which you know you're a kid. It kind of sucks, but it becomes normal. And that's why I say you know, when we count down these days, we know what's going to happen, we know it. So it's that anticipation of it.

Speaker 1: 32:51

When it comes to the holidays, you, there's something within you, whether you're a kid or an adult. There's more hope that it's going to be different. There's more expectation within yourself of it not being every other day that you've experienced, whatever it is, you know whatever pain that you're going through, and you think that this Christmas it's like sitting on Santa's lap and you're like this is going to be the year where things are going to be different, where maybe there's going to be a little bit more hope and spark in our joy. For this time during the year and then it goes by and then it didn't happen. So you know, you feel that as an adult too, I well, I live through my kids. Now I can tell you and I don't normally talk about this because I, my husband and I live separately, even though we're married. We've been married for 30 some years but that, like his idea of he never gets me Christmas presents, he doesn't really think of me at Christmas and you know, I think that maybe sometimes I think that I would not so much with me, that he would be different with the kids, yeah, and there's always that hope that he will do more than just maybe show up on Christmas day. Yeah, and you know I'll buy a present and then I'll give it to him and then I'll say, here, you give it to them, so they feel like he gave it to them, yeah, yeah. So I mean, there's that part of it. But my Christmas is now personally homicide, because my expectations of that are gone. But but as far as like I live I call it like I'm on my third childhood because, you know, I got to experience Christmas in a really joyful way with my older two and then now, you know, as I have adopted these three kids that are my grandkids, but I am mom, the only mom they've really known, especially the youngest one, since I got them at two months. But you know everything about our Christmas and our Thanksgiving and everything is just joy filled and I'm happy. You know somebody recently tried this is so. You know that we're talking about this because there's friends and there's friends. You know, yeah, and this is a friend from my childhood that really betrayed me to the point where, you know, it really separated us for a while. She's back in my life, we're kind of friends kind of, and she, for no reason and, like I said, I'm happy, my life is full she sent me a snapshot of my oldest estranged daughters because of what happened with the kids and everything. I mean I still love her very much. It's a very difficult situation. I wish it wasn't this way, Right, but it is. But my friend, as we're gearing up into this, the holidays and everything, she sent me a snapshot of a really awful comment that she had made about me on Facebook that I would not have seen. Right, I would not have seen it, I would not have known, right, but she made sure I saw it and she's like it's just so messed up that she said this. My thought was and what is the point for you? Are you trying to make me feel something going into the holidays? Are you trying to ruin this for me on purpose? And she said I'm so sorry. And I said no, my life is full, I'm happy and I'm okay. So what she did isn't going to hurt me. It didn't mean that I didn't think about it. Yeah, I think I had a few days after she sent that to me, but it left me with a question that really isn't appropriate for this episode, necessarily, but it was just. If you know something that's going to hurt a friend, would you share it with them? And I think that there's a time and a place and a reason for doing something like that, but this was not it.

Speaker 2: 38:06

Yeah, yeah yeah, that's kind of hurtful, for sure, well.

Speaker 1: 38:13

I wasn't going to letter. Yuck my yum.

Speaker 2: 38:16

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:16

You know, yeah. I love the holidays now.

Speaker 2: 38:21

I wish I could say the same. I mean, I have two kids and I definitely try to live through them. Probably, you know, it was easier when they were little. Now I have an 18-year-old and just about 20-year-old. The holidays are still very difficult for me, even as an adult. I try really hard to find the joy in it. I do, but it's hard to mask, even sometimes because you know I don't have. I think, when you just don't have that family or anybody around and it's just you, when you're trying to, like I have people to say to me create a new tradition, create a new tradition. And it's difficult when you're not, when you don't feel it. Do you know what I mean? It just feels you're just not there. And of course, you know I try to play the part because I have two kids and you want to. You're like, okay, well, we're going to do this for Thanksgiving and we're going to do this. And it's always just been my husband, myself and my two kids, mostly because of military as well, and he, his family, is older or deceased. So you know my kids don't have the grandparents around to enjoy the holiday with. They don't have that like anticipation of these big things. Now, obviously that's one of my fears is that they're missing out on that and they feel it, and I think my daughter does. But it's difficult because I still, I still wish I had that, even as an adult maybe not. You know, when you're kids you have a vision of like when you're you know the holidays, you just wish this and you play it out in your head how would this holiday go, like, how would my perfect holiday go? And as an adult I feel the same way. It's like if it just had family, so my kids can have this nice, beautiful Christmas or Thanksgiving or something of that sort. So that's really a very difficult thing and I definitely feel that that hurt, that anxiety, that that depression of things. It's really difficult and I wish it wasn't because I never want it to affect my kids, but it's definitely hard, you know, and that whole is still there.

Speaker 1: 40:41

That whole is still there of what you want, what you wanted as a child. You're still, maybe, hoping that it was there.

Speaker 2: 40:49

I do. You know, absolutely. And again, you know vulnerability wise. Yeah, I just wish that there was somebody that comes out of the woodwork and says you know we would have loved you or you know I would have done anything to have you part of it and and whatnot. So, like the holiday, we're going to my good friend's house, she's my best friend. We're going to her house for Thanksgiving. So, you know, I always have that and I don't want to say and this is where I feel the yield I don't want to say that I'm not appreciative of that, but it's not the same. And I don't think the age matters, yeah, and I don't think. You know, again, let's go back to like it's almost an embarrassment that you're this old and you still have that whole. You should be able to find joy. You should be able to do this because you're the mom You've got to create it. You're the mom you have to do this. Yeah, but no, like it's really a difficult time. I mean, you know, there were Christmases that we spent by ourselves, my kids and I, and only because my husband military and he had to leave. And there were those Christmases where I'm like God, I wish I just had a mom and dad so I can have my kids experience it, so I could experience it. I mean, that's a you know in my late 40s and I'm like it's. It's an embarrassing thing to say I just wish I had that and I still do. I just wish that I had that type of a holiday, that type of a belonging. Do you know what I mean? And I think that there's so many out of us out there that still wish that we just don't talk about it because it seems like you're ungrateful, like you. You know you're only doing this to yourself. You know this is something you need to get over and make these traditions for your kids. I've had people tell me that, and a few people only, because not everybody knows this, because you know it's an embarrassment, you know you're you're embarrassed to say at this age, you know you're still struggling with it.

Speaker 1: 42:46

Well, you know, there's people and there's no shame behind having small family you know, but I think in where there's Thanksgiving and there's people flying from all over the country to get with their families and there's large gatherings and lots of food, and then people are saying, oh, who are you going to get together with? Who's coming into your you know? And it's like, oh, it's just us, yeah, and it's just us and the kids, and it's there's kind of like this thing about it and I mean there really is nothing wrong with that, because you do create your own memories and your own and you have to make the best of it. But there is some of that, I think.

Speaker 2: 43:30

Yeah, yeah, and I, my daughter and I share a very good bond. I mean, I love it, I'm so happy about it because it's something you know I never had. I know that there are things missing that I wish I could do. You know, in our, in our bond, I never say she's my best friend because I have a best friend. I only have one daughter, so she's my daughter, and so she had said one time, you know, I wish we had what my friends have, where it was the gathering of grandparents and aunts and stuff, and I think that that made it even harder. And so at 18, she learned about you know what happened as I was growing up just again, some of the things. But as she's older, now 20, she listens to the podcast and only because I was like it's fine, you know, you're about 20 years old, you know, and, and that's like you know it's, it's difficult because she recognizes things. You know what I mean. And so, yeah, I've had the same thing. People were like, oh, make your own traditions. I'm like you don't understand how hard that is and it's so hard.

Speaker 1: 44:41

I am. You know, I've been very blessed, especially since I have these three kids and then my one of my daughters, who she doesn't live in this state, she only lives, like it, two hours away but she's got five kids, three of her own and then two of his, and they've combined the family and so I've got I mean, they're my grandkids, so I've got five and then these three and you know we get together like we were just together last weekend and there's like all this family and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm the matriarch now, I'm the one that's over all of this crazy. And so I mean it is a really blessed feeling to have all of that. And you know, I didn't even see myself. Interestingly, you had said one time that you didn't think that you would make it till you were 21. I also felt that I wasn't going to make it till I was this old for sure, and I never. And I know that there were people in my circle along the way who thought that I would never or have this kind of life later. And I have done so well and I'm so blessed with all this family that I'm so thankful as I go into Thanksgiving and things like that. Now there is the part of it where I have the wish. I wish that it would have gone differently with my adopted mom. I really do. I think that there's still that yearning for I wish that what we could have had, and it just wasn't there and it never could have been. Not the way that we, not the way that things transpired, especially after my dad passed away. It just wasn't going to happen. There was too much broken there, and after she gave my sister away especially. There's no coming back together for something like that.

Speaker 2: 46:49

Right.

Speaker 1: 46:50

Especially when there's never been a conversation or anything. And so you go into the holidays still with that kind of some of those yearnings of what could have been with the generations that above us, the connectedness that we could have had.

Speaker 2: 47:09

Yeah, and that's something that's hard. Like I said, I am blessed. I mean, I have two great kids, I have a great husband, I have incredible friends who are my chosen family. But there is that difference where it's. You know, I don't know how to explain it, it's one of those difficult times that you feel, no, I do understand.

Speaker 1: 47:34

Yeah, yeah, because there was a period of time in my life where I latched on to a family and I hoped that it would be. You know, they would be my family.

Speaker 2: 47:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 47:49

But I mean, it was my own expectations and hopes for something and I'll talk about some things that also happened to me because I was looking for a family. That didn't turn out very well, but that's a whole other podcast.

Speaker 2: 48:09

Yeah, in a half. Well, we probably share a lot in that respect too. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:15

But people have expectations and hopes as they go into the holidays, for sure.

Speaker 2: 48:20

Yeah and yeah, I did the same thing. I really wish that I had like that. You know, even if they weren't truly my relative, but made me feel related in some way. You know what I mean, and I think I've shared this before, where I have these great teachers, you know, still in my life, and so many people are like you know you have a place to go always, but it's different during the holidays. You don't have that place to go. Do you know what I'm saying? Once again, you're not in the family photos, you're not sitting around the table, at the family table, sharing whatever stories reminiscing having, you know, having your kids have cousins, having your kids have all this. It's a little embarrassment saying that you, you know, you're ungrateful for what you have because it's I'm not ungrateful. Let me explain that. I'm not ungrateful because I am. I know how blessed I am having these people, but it's just a reminder and I hate to say that because you know they'll probably, you know, say no, that's not true. You're like family, but I'm not, and that's not because of blood related. Again, it's more of you know, I don't call you mom, I don't call you whatever, and even if I did, you know what's the relationship or whatever. It's always going to be what it is, but I'm appreciative of them. It's just, you know, you have that, just that whole. And you know you said about grandkids. I don't know, maybe that's at some point my daughter decides that's what she wants to do. My son, you know, has special needs. We're not going to have grandkids from him. But with my daughter, you know, maybe someday, whether she has her own or adopts, because she even talks about that, maybe I will have that anticipation again because, you know, now I can be the person who does, you know, gather everybody in and makes the plans and everything. Um, maybe that's something to look forward to. And I hate to say that too, because you know I don't want my kids to think which, if she's listening, I don't want them to think that I'm not, you know, doing. But my daughter actually knows, she knows how difficult. She's like I know you're trying, it's okay, I'm like I'm going to try harder. Even when they were younger, I think it was a little different, because you can I don't know, I don't want to say mask things, but you can kind of get away with things, you know, as you focus on their toys, as you focus on this. But they're adults now and you know it's they like my daughter has a boyfriend and his whole family and they get together and they do this and God love them. He's like, oh, come, stop by. I'm like, what's he stopping by for? We don't do it, and so he doesn't understand. And so it's kind of difficult because you know it's great for her to be able to see and be part of that and, you know, go to his house or whatever. But it's so sad that you know we don't have that to give her on this side. And again it's like you know people are going to say, well, you make it for them, and I'm like, but I don't know really how, I don't know how to do it.

Speaker 1: 51:38

Okay, that's interesting yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:41

And I'm like you know because we, because we model. Right. Right, as you know, like I said, and that's hard too because we model, I don't want her to go through the same thing where she doesn't. You know how to do that to your children, but like it may be different because there will be more of us. So right now there's the nucleus of just the four of us which, again, so happy because you'll never have fighting in our house on Christmas or Thanksgiving or any holiday. We pretty much eat the same thing every single holiday. The only tradition we've made is like New Year's Eve we eat pizza, because you know when you're in the military and traveling and stuff, well, you do the best you can. So it kind of like turned out that way. So we do have a family tradition in that sense. But yeah, I mean, there's we'll have more people at, hopefully, at one point in time and you can give that and stuff, but it's still no matter what. I think it comes down to that ache. And then it's a reminder that I don't have the parents that I wish I had, that I don't have the mom I wish I had. You know, I kind of said all the time I'm like I was very nervous around men outside of my husband and a couple, my, my teacher, my high school teacher. Her husband was also my teacher. He was the only man that I was actually comfortable around, like I never had these fears of different expectations. He died a year ago, which is really difficult, oh, wow. Yeah, it was sudden and so that was pretty difficult. But I said I always said, because I wanted a mom so bad, I wish I had two moms. I wish you know, you know the, the lesbian couple I get couple. I wish I did, because that would have showered me with all that mom that I needed. Do you know what I'm saying? People never understand that too. I'm like I don't necessarily think I was looking for a dad. So this longing, when I talk about this longing of, of wishing for a mom, it's, it's the female relationship, the bond the closeness, the um, that warm, loving feeling, and so, since I wasn't always um, comfortable with men and it's very um, I get anxious, even thinking about it right now, and I'm talking about it, I start to like tense up, and it's so ridiculous to think about it, but it is true, like I tense up and so, um, yeah, I mean it's just, I just it's just going to be a whole every holiday, and I don't mean to say that where I don't have hope. But you know, you're 48 years old, there is no more hope. This is it, this is your life. You have to accept it and move on. But I think it's just difficult. I think it's just a reminder each holiday. It's just a reminder of what you don't have. You're supposed to be grateful what you do, and I do. I'm grateful what I have, but there's always going to be this intense like ache for what I don't have.

Speaker 1: 55:00

Just two things and then we'll wrap it up. But I one thing is that I have that picture after my dad had passed away and in my head when I did return to school after Thanksgiving break. And you know this man and I've talked about him before, but I mean he was like to me, like this giant of a man was the biggest teacher I had ever seen. I mean, if there was somebody, if he painted himself green, I would have said he was the Jolly Green Giant for sure. But he had the softest, most gentle heart and he had been my fifth grade teacher and now I was in sixth grade, but he came over to me and he got down on his knees, eye to eye. At the first day I went back to school and said you know, how are you doing? And it was that connection and I'll tell you. I have never forgotten that. But that's how I'm feeling, like teachers going into breaks, going in and out of breaks, and I know it's hard, but to go to their students individually, yeah, yeah, and maybe just make you know party day. Make it a day where the teacher is like off to the side and, one by one, each child comes to her or him and says, and she says to them how are you, how are you going into this break? Is there anything that you need? Yeah, and when they come out of it, make some kind of a connection with them one on one and say how was it, you know, and that kind of thing, and just make that one on one connection because it's just so important and I will never forget that that's what that teacher did.

Speaker 2: 57:11

I wish that you know one of the things that I had wished. Again I'll go back to this whole thing If I had to do over, if I had to give a piece of advice, and again we'll go back to the 30 seconds because again this only takes 30 seconds. It doesn't take long.

Speaker 1: 57:27

That's how long it took that Mr Belcher was his name. Mr Belcher, that's how long it took him to do that.

Speaker 2: 57:33

Yeah. So I would. My biggest advice, if the teacher's listening to this, is, you know as, even if it's as they're leaving, maybe to say I'm going to think about you because I'm going to miss you and I'm going to be thinking about you over this holiday. I'm going to be thinking about you because, you know, I just wanted to know somebody was thinking about me and I wasn't forgotten. Do you know what I mean? And so, again, there's that 30 second moment where you don't have to do anything else. Just tell them I'm going to think about you and then that's it, because that might be the single thing that helps them to get through a holiday, because they're always going to have in their mind somebody's thinking about me.

Speaker 1: 58:19

Yeah Well, mr Belcher, he said to me that moment. You know, if you ever need me, I'm here.

Speaker 2: 58:26

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 58:27

Well, I never went to him for anything. I was that quiet kid, yeah, but I never forgot. Yeah, it's stuck with me to this day. I don't even think he's and I don't think he's with us anymore. But you know, it doesn't take long at all.

Speaker 2: 58:49

No.

Speaker 1: 58:50

To make a child feel special.

Speaker 2: 58:51

No, it's just like. I guess you know I go back 30 seconds. That's it. Look them in the eye, say I'm going to miss you or thinking about you.

Speaker 1: 59:00

Yeah, that's it. Yeah, so the teachers for my son did this morning and it was amazing because they asked him what he needed. Oh, okay, and he was able to sort of voice some of those things. We kind of were tearing pieces, parts of what he was saying to try to get it out of him. But I mean it was all because they sat, asked questions, listened and then we were able to come up with a plan. Yeah, so I mean that is so important for him to know that he's being heard and seen.

Speaker 2: 59:42

Yeah, yeah, that's it. I just want to be seen. We just know that. You know that's a kid just wants to be seen. The quiet kid in the back like you, you know that quiet kid, Even the quiet, even the unquiet kid like myself, who was a chatterbox and, you know, got in trouble. I mean, just tell me that you'll think about me, because that's, you know, I'm not. I know that there's no one else going to be doing that. So if you just tell me that I can get through this, Well, I just want to end with that poem that I wrote.

Speaker 1: 1:00:16

Yeah, did you like?

Speaker 2: 1:00:18

it. I don't, I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:00:18

I did.

Speaker 2: 1:00:19

I did Yep Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:00:20

You're great at writing.

Speaker 2: 1:00:21

Are you kidding me? You're very good at writing.

Speaker 1: 1:00:26

I'm not going to write. Yesterday because I knew that we were talking about this podcast and I was like it just hit me and it went its own direction. I mean honestly, when I write, it just comes with whatever thought comes next and I don't want to know what I'm going to write. So I mean sometimes, sometimes I do, but in this case it's authentic.

Speaker 2: 1:00:50

You know, that's the authentic-ness, and when you're authentic, you're vulnerable and that's what makes people connect more. That's what we need, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:00:58

Yeah, it is what we need. So I called it the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, which is, you know, I didn't even know I was going to call it the Tuesday before Thanksgiving because he died actually on November 25th. So you would think that that would be, but the more memory that I have, it was it was two days before Thanksgiving.

Speaker 2: 1:01:22

That's the association, yeah, with the holiday Right.

Speaker 1: 1:01:25

So I just say the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, some are preparing, cooking, shopping. The excitement of what is to come that particular Tuesday was the 25th of November Woke up like any other day. I look at 11-year-olds today and I honestly see a child. I mean a young child. I mean to me. When I was 11, I thought I was old, no idea why. I never grasped how young I actually was at the time, but I was just a baby. I figured out how young 11 is, not only because of how young they look, but also because of how adults treat them, and I'm blown away by what 11 means. I'm getting somewhere with this. It wasn't like any other day, of course. It was the day that my dad, my beloved cheerleader, lover of the quiet hero of war, was no longer with me. It's crazy what you remember about the day of a major event a smell, a noise, the people who said what when that moment stopped time. You never forget. I weirdly remember the show Happy Days as my first memory whenever I think of that day. It's amazing how entertainment like TV shows and things like that is so connected to a feeling of loss or happy times. I also remember swimming, as I was at the pool when it happened. I remember his last kiss goodbye in the morning. I remember his tattoo I would trace on his arm. I remember sitting with him every night after work, quietly, while he drank his beer and would give me a small shot glass of one to share with him. He never said a lot, quite as man I ever knew, but he stood for something. He fought for this country and he believed in this country. He believed in me. What a beautiful thing. I remember so much more about that day and the days that followed. Why does a moment in time change us forever? I couldn't even say when my dad died, afraid to go to sleep, as I saw him outside my window every time, I closed my eyes. For a year my mom had to sleep with me in my room because she wouldn't go into hers. Side note, it wasn't because she was there for me. Neighbors came and cleaned out his closet. They took almost everything. Wait, that's my dad's. I watched them as they took his things out of the house as if he no longer existed. I guess he didn't. My dog, my dog carried my dad's shoe around after his death, this chewed up shoe. If you saw our dog, he had the shoe. He never went anywhere without it. It's amazing how animals get it Sometimes more than people. My brother came into town. He was a man of mystery that I only saw a couple times. Growing up, my dad's son. We played pool. I have a picture of it and that's the only reason I remember it. He used to suck his mustache as he drank his coffee. Weird, that's what we remember. What are the right words to say to an 11-year-old who lost their father? There are no words. I think sitting with in silence can be the best support. People brought food. We had the best neighbors. We had more food than anyone could have eaten. I sat in my room a lot. One family took me to the movies to get me out of my room. We saw the movie Jaws. Now I'm afraid to go in the ocean Me too. Anyway, one friend of mine brought me food and visited for a few. Another never came over because she loved my dad as much as I did. She couldn't. I understand he was like a dad to her too. Cousins and family came from Jersey. It's amazing how family come, how they come for a death. The world stops. But how come? When I look out the window, people are still buzzing by and the world is going as if there wasn't a loss. They didn't know him, but if they did, they would have liked him. He was a young man when he died. I'm older than he was. I thought he was old. Thanksgiving parade. I sat by myself and watched the parade. I still, to this day, watch it with the same feeling I had when I was 11 years old Joy with a mix of empty. Who knew that I would live this long, have five kids and five grandkids? Now I'm old At least that's what I think. Taps. My dad did not have the goodbye he was supposed to have. It was the weekend of Thanksgiving and no military could play taps. I barely listened to that song. Today I was asked to go to a veterans assembly for my son recently. I hold back the tears to this day whenever I see a veteran, a man of honor. My dad, a man that taught me to respect the flag, a man that taught that was lost at sea when a ship was sunk, never talked about his days of war, stayed quiet on the couch drinking his beer with me as I traced his tattoo. Yep, my dad, my hero.

Speaker 2: 1:07:17

So that's it. That's good. That's pretty deep. You know that must have been hard.

Speaker 1: 1:07:26

You know, I would think it is, and there was a couple of times there I was going to start crying. But you know, so much time has gone by so much time and I think that's the story. He still is real to me today, as he was then. It's amazing, you know how much influence our parents have on us till the day we die. It's crazy. You would think that that goes away, as we have said, with age. It really doesn't. It stays with you until your last breath. That connection with your parents, whether it was good or whether it wasn't.

Speaker 2: 1:08:19

Right.

Speaker 1: 1:08:21

So, yeah, I was very grateful and thankful to have my dad and he was my biggest cheerleader, you know. He was always at the end of the block waiting for me when I would get out of the pool. So there was that association A lot of really great times but a very, very quiet man and I loved him so much. But you know, there's that association with Thanksgiving. And then after that, you know, when my brother came in and we had a Christmas of all Christmases with all kinds of presents, I got tons of presents and my brother was there that I hadn't really seen since I was a baby and it's so strange how things like that can happen and then he left and then I didn't see him again until I was probably an adult, I think. But it's just really interesting what the holidays do.

Speaker 2: 1:09:18

It is, and I wish, like I said I'm sure there's a lot of us out there Hard to say that we are still the same way missing. You know, thinking about what could it should have worked. As you know, the water could have showed us. And it's okay, there's a lot of us out there. It's not a lonely thing, but that's what the holidays bring, at least for me, it's that you know there's a missing piece. You know for you, your dad is that missing piece, that still feel this, and there's no shame in it and there's no guilt in it. I think it just goes along with what our past was and the hurt. You know. We and we just do our best and hope that someday, as we grow older, that the hurt won't be as much. And it's okay, though, if it's there Time is healing.

Speaker 1: 1:10:13

But I just how I want to end is by saying that if you can reach out to somebody a child or an adult that you know might be hurting or might be alone for the holidays, invite them in. You know, try to be family to them and if you are one of those people, try to seek somebody out and find somebody. You know, I've always thought, when I go into a restaurant and I see an older person or somebody sitting by themselves, that I, you know, wish, and I have like made it a point to go up and talk to them, but I wish that they had some kind of an adoption thing. An adult adoption, where people could sign up and families could sign up, and they could even be 80 year old people that just don't have anybody anymore. Yeah. Adult adoptions and they're brought together for the holidays, which could lead into more.

Speaker 2: 1:11:21

You know, yeah, or at least an anticipation of something to look forward to every year. You know, maybe it's something that can't be in every day, but you know absolutely.

Speaker 1: 1:11:30

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would challenge people to go out and find somebody to love on, or you know, and I'll tell you what people who are lonely when you get outside of yourself and you can find somebody to love on, and maybe it is the opposite find somebody to love on, not necessarily for somebody to love you, but somebody to love on, and you will get that back. Yeah, yeah, it really does.

Speaker 2: 1:12:00

Shifting, opening up, you know, looking at things in a different lens. But yeah, and again, I just want to kind of say this over and over to a teacher if you're out there, please, please, please, take a second to tell your your student. I'm going to miss you.

Speaker 1: 1:12:17

And I just want to thank everybody for coming to real talk with Ann and Denise at this point. But Tina is still here with us and we love her during this difficult time with her for the holidays, as she's taking care of herself and her mom and just find somebody to love. And we'll see you next time.