Trauma Certified Educators Discuss Co-regulating, Societal Pressures on Education and Giving Ourselves Grace: Part 2

Speaker 1: 0:10

Welcome to Real Talk. I am Ann, and Tina is still in Hawaii, but she's on the other side of that treacherous journey that she had and we just can't wait to hear her story. She has so many stories and so many lessons and she's going to be coming home in a couple of days, but we are going to be having her back next week and she is going to be sharing during an entire episode of what she's learned and what she's conquered. And you know it's going to take a while for her to really unpack everything that she just dealt with. I mean, from a tropical storm heading her way to you know, going along a very, very narrow trail with a very steep drop, with I'm sure there was mud along the way, which would have made it more dangerous. Actually, I would think so. I can't wait to listen to everything that she has to say. We're very excited and very proud of her, but this week we have Shannon Fisher, who was with us last week for part one of a very interesting two-parter. This is part two and she is one of the chosen teachers from the Wadsworth City Schools traumatized, a really excellent teacher that puts mental health before academics, and you know we're just so proud and it's a very wonderful thing that we've been able to speak with the Wadsworth City Schools, first with the principal and the head of student services and now a teacher sharing why the district has decided to do this. So Shannon has taken this to a whole different level and we're going to be sharing part two of her interview. And then Carrie, who is with Springfield local schools in Ohio, has been a counselor for over 30 years and she also has quite a bit to share. She's my co-host today and I can't wait to share this episode with you. So this is part two of the Shannon Fisher episode.

Speaker 2: 2:27

So kids, all kids, you know, are good inside. All kids are excited for people to feel like people care about them and are paying attention to them and see them. And I, honestly, I think isn't that we all want as humans? We all want to be seen and heard and understood and validated, and I just think I mean I could go on about this forever but I think it would be a very different world if we were just all seen and heard and understood and validated, and it doesn't mean people agree with you but you don't take away Shannon's humanness because you have a disagreement with them. And I think the world needs to hear that. Yes and yeah. And I just think I mean even when I think about my boys at home, if let's say I. So my husband is also a teacher and he also has now started coaching football again, which he did when we were first married and had our first son, and then he stopped and now he's doing it again, and so I. He teaches middle school, so he leaves at 6, 30 in the morning and I get everybody out the door to go where we're going. My boys are seven, five and three, so we'll have second grade and kindergarten this year, and then I have my three-year-old and during he normally picks up during the school year because he gets out first, but during football season I pick up. So there are days that I come home because, you know, if you have kids at home, sometimes you've already worked a morning, a full-time job, just trying to get people out the door and fed and dressed. And then you go to your job and you work a full job and then you try to pick them up and scoop up all the pieces and come home and make dinner, and so even just saying that makes me feel dysregulated. And then we wonder why, for, like, snapping at our kids, you know, and so even for me, even with all of this training that I have, there are times with my boys when I've like it's been a morning, it's been a day at school. I'm just like can we just go through the drive, through a McDonald's or could a pizza for dinner, and something happens and I like snap and I lose it and I say if you do that again, you're going to bed earlier. If you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you're not going to get ice cream or whatever. And I just think when, in those moments, when we look at kids behaviors like that we do. We don't, we see the behavior, we see the thing that's frustrating us and we go into fight or flight mode because we're going to fight the behavior, because it's annoying us or upsetting us, and we don't always see the human, the child behind the behavior. And so I think how different would it be to handle things that way, like to still see the person like the behavior is just a symptom of something. Either they're tired, or they're hungry, or they're just regulated, or they're stressed out or you know all the things.

Speaker 1: 5:22

The behavior is just an outward symptom of something, but it doesn't define who they are so we just had a situation recently with my daughter that was really extreme and I was just immediately went to that, well, you're going to lose this and you're going to lose that. And I often, when I back out of something like that, I tell myself you know, there was a reason behind that and I need to, and I even said why. And she's like I don't know, and I really believe she doesn't know. So it's kind of like that getting down on their level, like that one teacher did with me, and you know you just say let's try to help you figure this out together and instead of just trying to correct the behavior because there has to be a reason why okay, I was just gonna say that's a co-regulation piece that sometimes this hard to do as a parent, like when you have that day, you know oh for sure, because then you, like you, have to regulate yourself.

Speaker 2: 6:23

You can't. How are you going to co-regulate someone else if you're not regulated? That's what's so hard. But you know, I feel like I kind of went on this tangent. But going back to your question about is it hard to do with the needs today, I think if you make it a priority to have some type of connection with each kid every day, even if it's just a quick passing thing, but to get to actually know that kid and who they are, I think you're you are able to do that, even if your class size is larger, because they do feel like you see them. You're already planting the seeds each day, little by little, to let them know that they're seen and heard. So then when something does come up, they already know that you care and they're not as defensive about it. Yeah, I love go ahead.

Speaker 3: 7:07

Carrie, I'm sorry, I was just gonna say it, I did not find your tracking positive interactions with kids. Hokey, I think it's an amazing, amazing idea in one that I'm going to work on having our staff even the secretary, the principal, new specials kind of keep an eye on that this year. I think that would make a huge, huge impact. And I do think class size, you know, for those teachers who do that, that's just their unnatural part of who they are as a teacher, I think you're right that you find the time and you make the connection and you do it daily. Or, like you said, if I notice you know one didn't get you know that interaction, then you do, you know, prioritize that the next day. But I think for teachers who that that academic piece is stronger for them than the emotional piece, I think it is harder with the larger class sizes, you know, along with the stress of trying to meet the standards and everything. But I agree with you, shannon, and I love tracking that positive interaction with kids.

Speaker 1: 8:13

You know they're going along with this. There's so many more diagnoses that are out there with mental health. With our kiddos today, I mean, I have three with pretty significant diagnoses and you know, teachers are teaching a lot more than just the child. They're also having to deal with a lot of the mental health pieces. I mean, what do you think are some of the biggest contributors to that? And maybe we already touched on this, but I you know the mental health piece is a completely different issue.

Speaker 2: 8:45

Oh, absolutely, yeah, I think a big contributor is just the world we live in, you know, we're just. Everything is so fast paced no one can catch their breath, it seems like you know. And so my oldest son, seven, he's going into second grade and he wasn't like a pandemic baby but the year he was supposed to go to preschool was the year of the pandemic and we couldn't go. He was signed up for preschool but we couldn't go visit the preschool and we were. There was no open house because it was like in the midst of you know before things kind of turned around, and so to take him, he was just supposed to just be dropped off at the door and go with these people. He didn't know, and I thought there's absolutely no way this is going to happen or be a positive thing for him. And so he didn't end up going to preschool that year but like there's just lots of things you know, like he didn't do swimming lessons, you know, but you feel like now he's seven and there's just certain things we haven't done, like just certain activities, because he has younger brothers and I was like I am not chucking a baby, you know, to wherever. But then you think I mean and this is like crazy to me to think about this so he's never played soccer before. He never did like little kids soccer, but he kind of wanted to play this year. So we'll sign him up if he wants to. But there, but I already know in my head there are kids that have been playing soccer for three years, that fully know what to do and he doesn't really know he's never played. So it's just one of those things like society says, like get him in soccer when they're four and take him to swimming lessons when they're this and hurry, you got to do this because if they're seven and they don't know how to play, and like it's competitive and they travel and they and it's like just let them be kids and figure it out when they want to. So I don't know where it necessarily, but then you know it, where it necessarily stems from it. But it's like you don't want to over schedule your kids, but you don't want to feel like they're missing out on anything, and then it's just such a such a puzzle really. It's just such a convoluted mess. I think it's just such a fast paced thing and none of us really can catch our breath, and I think everyone's doing the best that they can. But I think that's a huge, huge component of it. There's a lot more pressure on kids, not just always academic either and so I think it's, unfortunately, a big melting pot of lots of different things. You know social media, but I don't think there's anyone thing that can be blamed. I think it's just we have all these things like social media and busyness and our own stresses, and it's just this big melting pot of stuff.

Speaker 3: 11:40

I agree totally. I was going to say that I think, along with all of those different pressures coming in at the same time, the skills weren't being taught to know what to do with them. So, and I believe parents as well just like all of a sudden inundated with this technology and social media and I'm not, I agree with you. I think it's a melting pot and not just one thing can be blamed. But just an example would be technology is all of a sudden, everything was at everybody's fingertips and then at the same time, you know parents, kids, like I think you said before, shannon, that our brains were just not made to be that way and we've had to adjust. And that's why we always go to the kids to solve our technology problems, because you know they do adjust, you know, sometimes quicker than we do. But I just think that that information being at fingertips, I see a lot more stress and pressure, I see a lot more anxiety in our students and some of them also have that trauma piece there which you know of course makes that anxiety even worse. But I just think that mental health piece just being emotionally regulated and being able to teach those skills to the students, you know we keep hoping they'll take them home for families and you know, practice what they're learning in school and I think to some degree they do and they try to and I think, like you said, families are just doing the best they can. Teachers are, staff is, and we just got to keep, you know, pushing forward and trying to get those positives back in.

Speaker 1: 13:22

Yeah, those pressures are really there. Going back to what you said, shannon, about sports, I mean, fortunately we found a really great program for our kids where they are in a DD program and they play baseball for this team. And I mean there's kids in wheelchairs, there's kids that are nonverbal, there's kids that are stimming. And I'll tell you what I'm so proud of my kids, because it is not about competition, it is not about who you know has been doing this longer or anything. They cheer everybody on. There's just two innings. Everybody gets to bat, everybody gets to be out on the field and you know, there's my daughter giving everybody a high five from the other team as they're passing her to the base. And I just can't tell you what a great learning lesson that has been for my kids that everybody is different. There was a kid who was stimming, you know, my daughter sat down next to him and said oh, you must be really happy. And he was like happy, happy. And she's like I'm so happy for you that you're so happy. And you know, there was another little boy who was just stimming like crazy and she said you know, that's just what people, some people do. They're just different. Everybody is different and that's okay, and I was just so proud of her that that's the lessons that they're learning.

Speaker 2: 14:52

That's amazing, that's so amazing.

Speaker 1: 14:56

Yeah, I mean to put them like you said. I mean it's just such a competitive world out there and our kids have so many anxieties to begin with, but you know, I mean that just kind of takes that piece off. So I just really like that about them. I mean they still get the bullying and things like that from kids that don't understand that they're different and that's difficult. But you know, it's just trying to give them the tools and I think that that's one of the biggest things that we need to do as parents is try to give them, our kids and our students, the tools to be able to make it in the world. So we did talk about pressure, a little bit outside of the classroom and a little bit inside of the classroom, but you know there's a teaching to the test now. There is like they are just so driven inside that classroom and that has to add to the pressures.

Speaker 2: 15:48

Oh, I'm sure, and I think it adds to pressure for teachers and for kids. You know, I think right, there's new, like education has changed. There's new standards, there's new things we need to teach that weren't what you know. So when I started teaching, I taught second grade my first year 20 years ago, and I student taught in kindergarten and second grade before I taught, and the things that I was student teaching in kindergarten, those are things I was teaching preschoolers, you know, a couple of years ago. And so I think what we've been expected to teach kids has changed, but human development has not, and so some kids are ready for that. Sure, lots of kids maybe get bits and pieces, but the thing is it builds in such a stepping stone way that if a kid misses part of a concept, like that's gonna affect the next learning, the next year, and it kind of becomes a slippery slope. So I think it adds pressure for the teachers because teachers want to make sure. I don't know that it's necessary. So much about at least the teachers that I know. It's not about teaching to the test and how they score on the test, it's wanting your kids to be successful. Like this is the reality of what it is right now and we want you to be successful and making sure kids would get what they need. But yeah, I think that that does add pressure. I mean, I think it adds pressure probably for people all the way up. You know that we want to make sure kids are getting what they need to be successful, so, but it's not always developmentally appropriate what we're expected to teach them.

Speaker 1: 17:33

So yeah, I would think that it would be hard to meet each child where they are in the classroom when you've got that many people. I do know that you have aids, though, to help along the different levels within the same classroom.

Speaker 2: 17:46

Yes, yes, we do, and yeah, and at Grizzly Academy, I think, because so Katie Oliver is the intervention specialist that'll be with me, and you know we've already talked about how we're going to kind of break things up to make sure kids are getting what they need at their level, and how we're going to. You know, rotate things throughout the day, so so that's definitely something we're already trying to plan out.

Speaker 3: 18:16

I think that's exciting because you're coming from two different not necessarily different views of teaching, but your specialties, and so you know being able to brainstorm and put your heads together and figure out how best to do that and what it's going to look like has to be exciting.

Speaker 2: 18:37

Yeah, it is very exciting. I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 1: 18:40

How do you think social media has played a part with the younger kids? I mean we've talked a little bit about that social media, but I mean it's with our elementary school kids. What do you think gets done for our kids?

Speaker 2: 18:54

Yeah, it's interesting because I even see it with my own boys. You know it. We have our own battles in my house when I say what, may I say it's time to drop the TV or technology, or it's time to put away your Kindle or those things. So I think that there's good things that can come from it. You know, there's lots of things that I'm able to maybe show in my classroom that my kids wouldn't otherwise know or learn about, like when we did, you know, we had catapulters and we observed them turning into butterflies. We were able to find out all kinds of information through books and videos, that kind of thing. As far as like social media, like Facebook, instagram, tiktok kind of things, I have found that not too. I mean, you know, at least with kindergarteners. They know what it is but they don't know. So, like I always had like a private classroom Instagram account that I shared. So just only my students' parents saw it. So parents got a view into our day and got to see videos and things that we did, because I know as a parent how hard it is when you send them off and you're like I have no idea what their day looks like. They have this whole other world outside of home and you only get bits and pieces that they tell you. So I just always thought it would be a way for parents to feel like they could actually see what their kids were doing, even for a little bit, in the classroom. And so I mean, so the kids, I would say like, oh, we're gonna like let's, do you want me to share this with your parents? I didn't even know that I ever said it was Instagram. So I feel like younger kids know about those things but they don't really use them, so they don't really know. So social media, as far as like bullying and things like that don't really happen with the younger kids, it's more so. Just technology use, I think is hard and just setting the parameters around that, because you know for all of us we can get on our phone and we can start just like scrolling, and then you look up and it's an hour later and you think, oh my gosh, where did the time go? You know. So I think for all of us that's something, and so I think it's especially hard with kids who don't have fully developed brains or brains aren't fully developed. So I think it's even more so hard to break them away from that.

Speaker 3: 21:22

Like I said, I'm at Shrop Intermediate in Springfield and we had grades three through six last year and this year it'll be four through six, and at that age social media does play a huge part, unfortunately, you know we have the chat groups that they're doing or the different things that they're posting, alienating kids. You know they'll say really mean, nasty things to each other on there and the difficult piece is that it happens at home and so the school can't really do anything about it unless it comes into school or the classroom or whatever. So it's that fine line of, yes, you printed this out and, yes, that is mean and whatever, However, you know. So you talk with them about it and blocking students or, you know, just not going on. But, like, for us, social media was a huge, huge piece. Our resource officer worked with us quite a bit, you know, because, like I said, you know the school can't do anything about it. The parents need to, if it's, you know, critical enough, need to take it to the police and we had a few situations where police were involved and there were consequences. They're also, you know, getting students the help that they needed outside of school, whether it be counseling or you know different things. So, for us, huge piece. I love the technology piece as far as, like you said, Shannon, with being able to bring things into the classroom. Our teachers do a lot of that and it's enhanced learning tremendously. But there is that negative side to it that unfortunately we do have to deal with sometimes. Along with that, I mean, there's that intentional bullying and peace and character assassination that takes place and, like I said, grades three through six and amazingly, I mean some of the things that came out of the third graders' mouths and we're very shocking on social media. So not just the older ones, but unfortunately it's getting a little bit younger and younger.

Speaker 1: 23:33

You know, I'll tell you, youtube has been a godsend in my house and a curse. I mean, my kids have learned things that they never would have known before, which is a good thing, you know, because they love the Jack Hartman stuff and everything. And my one son is just obsessed with Titanic and solar systems and he just loves watching that stuff. But then they get on and they look at some of these YouTubers and they do these pranks and different stuff and my daughter just wants to try the pranks and I mean it's. I mean they're learning things that they wouldn't have known before. So I mean we really have to monitor.

Speaker 2: 24:10

Oh for sure. And it's the same in my house. You know, my boys are three, five and seven, and so we actually this summer it was the same thing my oldest started watching, you know the whole like prank stuff or like so a pool with Orbeez, or like fill a car with Orbeez or whatever. I mean it's harmless stuff, but like is that really? Is that really what we want to spend our whole, you know, 20 minutes of our day watching, and there's certain things you know like so they love to watch. These people try to Recreate, like the jumps and superhero movies, and so it's just gymnastics. But now my middle son we actually my husband I just had this conversation he really wants to do a backflip, like, he wants to try to do it. And so we're at the crossroads thinking, okay, do we sign him up for gymnastics? But then that like opens the door to more things, which is fine if that's what he wants to do, but like will it be safe? That's kind of the thing. Or if we don't, though he's so determined, he's gonna figure it out anyway and it's probably gonna hurt himself. So we probably will end up just signing him up, because I'd rather he learns how to do a backflip appropriately, then Try to do it himself. But yeah, I think it's the same. It's that balance of you know what do you? I mean even you know what do you allow and how long do you allow it and what are they getting from it. And I mean even from my oldest to my youngest. When my oldest was three, almost four, we were still watching Mickey Mouse, clubhouse and puppy dog pals and all of those things. And now my three-year-old, because he has two older brothers, I mean he'll still watch it, but not as often. You know, like it was like Disney Junior on repeat in my house when I had, you know, when my oldest was three.

Speaker 1: 26:05

So here to just, yeah, it's interesting and now because we have two older kids over my youngest son, he he wants to go to YouTube right away and they could sit there and watch Minecraft videos and things like that, or what to do on Roblox and you know just Different things. And you know, I we won't. We don't even really need regular TV in our house half the time, because they just Gravitate towards YouTube videos.

Speaker 2: 26:34

Oh, same here, same here. I actually took I actually my oldest son watched something and I had told him don't watch that again, I delete it from life. He's like I didn't know, I I don't remember what it was, but it was something. Maybe it was like someone doing a prank and some language came up and luckily I mean, thank the Lord, my voice, think the worst words are like shut up and stupid, like we've made it to second grade. We don't like they, they're still so. They were like some words coming out and I'm like, oh, we're gonna turn that off. He's like I didn't, I didn't know, it just came up. I didn't know, like, okay, well, we're gonna take it off, don't watch it again. And sure enough, he found it again and watch it again. And so I said, okay, we're gonna take a break from YouTube. And I took it off our TV, off our smart TV, off the app, and I put YouTube kids on instead of regular YouTube, and like we have parental controls even on regular YouTube. But he still got to it. Talk about like we were talking about the technology and like kids, no, he figured, they figured out how to read it to the TV. Oh, my goodness, yeah. And it was like so on the TV. I'm like, oh my gosh, okay Well. So yeah, they figured out a couple days later how to read it. So yeah, it's, you know. But again, there is, there's really good stuff, like you said. You know, my kids learn all kinds of stuff about dinosaurs and bugs and sharks and all kinds of things, but it's it's hard to find that balance, for sure.

Speaker 1: 27:58

Shannon, you must be so excited about this upcoming school year.

Speaker 2: 28:02

Yeah, I am. I'm very excited and it's just an absolute great team to work with everyone who's Gonna be part of Grizzly Academy. It's wonderful, and I've been lucky enough to work with a lot of them before, so I'm really excited. I think it's gonna be a great, a great thing.

Speaker 1: 28:20

Carry. Your job is pretty complex because you have how how many kids that you are over as one school counselor. I mean it's a lot different than a smaller program or school that Shannon is in. I mean Shannon has, you know, they have one full-time counselor for about 20 kids, but you have, like how many kids?

Speaker 3: 28:41

last year I had over 500, like close to 540, my god, with one of one of the grades. Going back to the other element, to the only elementary school we have, it'll be somewhere probably in the four to four, twenty five, 425. But the role of the counselor, the school counselor, grizzly Academy, is a dream job. I'm just so excited with all the layers and tears that are being put into place. Tell me the needs of the whole child. Being the counselor, being able to be available for meeting the immediate needs of the students, is just incredible. The their counselor will be able to impact a student's emotional and academic academic needs and growth Just Amazingly. I mean just the most amount possible. I think this is huge that the Wasar City School Administration and school board realizes the importance of the school counselors role With the students who are facing or have been impacted by trauma, and not only do they recognize it, but they put into place a program that will actually do what these students need meet them where they are and take them forward. And I am, I'm truly in awe of this program.

Speaker 1: 29:58

Well, how many? How do counselors meet the needs of that many kids carry?

Speaker 3: 30:05

We do the best we can. We've talked before on here about Implementing self-care, relying on the teachers to let us know when a student is just not acting themselves, that something may be off and they may just need. I had so many students who Just needed a quiet place to land. We implemented common corners in each classroom. Whatever that needed to look like or could look like for that teacher, we left it up to them. We gave them, you know, some basic plans, but just classroom guidance lessons as much as possible, bringing in outside resources that you know like I can't get to. You know this number of students and we had green leaf come in and do a whole program for the sixth graders on Suicide prevention and then they have a little bit different program that they used with fifth graders and it just you know it's something that there's no way I would be able to do on top of you know. You know students who are in in crisis. You know there are resource classrooms. Just you know, trying to meet all those needs, I can't do it. I just can't do it by myself. So we have a team in place. The school psychologist and I work together on some of the suicide assessment. Resource officer, just utilizing the resources that the count that I have as a counselor to Meet as many of the students needs as possible, and then if I can't, or I know they need, you know More intensive than obviously referring out and getting them the help they need that way you know, shannon, the parents are a huge piece to this puzzle, and so how can parents help the teachers and staff?

Speaker 1: 31:57

I mean, how can we work together as a team to help our kids be their best?

Speaker 2: 32:03

You know, for me, something I've always tried to keep in mind, as a teacher and now as a parent also is just to give Others grace. You know, everyone's doing the best they can with the tools they have. And I think so often or maybe not so often, but sometimes there are teachers who will try to say, like this, parents difficult, or this is what's happening with their kids, and and the parents don't want to listen. Or a parents might say, well, you're, my kid doesn't act this way at home, so it must be something with the teacher. And I think when things like that happen, when we start kind of making accusations and Not thinking that people are doing the best they can with what they have, we get defensive and then nothing can be done to help the kid and and we should be keeping our focus on how can we help kids. And so I think by really believing that everyone's doing the best they can with the tools they have and Meeting people where they are, for parents and teachers, I think that's just the most beneficial thing, and just having that open Communication and constant communication, I think that's just a big piece of it.

Speaker 3: 33:18

I agree and I answered it perfectly. It's definitely refreshing when the parents, just you know, meet us where their children are and work alongside us, and I'm sure parents appreciate when we do. Now we act like a team and we are a team and we are Keeping focused on what we can do to help the student learn and to just be okay I mean generally Okay and keeping in mind that so much of what we deal with with parents and students and I don't mean deal with parents in a bad way, I should have used a different word but when we're working with parents, like you said, shannon, is keeping in mind they're doing the best they can, their Child is doing the best they can, the teacher is, and sometimes I liked your word before, just that reset. So sometimes we have to come together as a team and, just you know, push, pause and and restart and get back on the same page.

Speaker 1: 34:15

Yeah, I mean, I know for me as a parent. I have three kids with very different special needs, so I know my part Is to constantly communicate with the teacher and you know for us to work together as a team. It's hard out there raising kids these days, so it's just not the same as it used to be. It really does take a village.

Speaker 2: 34:35

Oh, absolutely, it absolutely takes a village, no question about it.

Speaker 1: 34:40

So, shannon, if you could come up with one of your favorite quotes and talk about why it means something to you Learning this.

Speaker 2: 34:48

Yeah, so one of my favorite quotes is actually my signature on my email and it has been for years on my work email is it's by Hold on, I'm gonna look it up it's by LR nos. And it's that when little people are overwhelmed by big emotions, it's our job to share our calm, to, not to join their chaos. And it's so much for me about co-regulating, but also the piece of as the adult, giving ourselves grace and taking time to make sure we really are. I mean, it's twofold right. It's it's co-helping kids co-regulate and not Add fuel to the fire when they're already Heightened, which is so, so, so important. But we can't do that if we're not also taking care of ourselves and making sure that we, our own mental health needs are being met and we are getting what we need also To, so that we can be regulated and show up as our best version for our kids, as their teacher, but also as their parent or their grown-up or their guardian. You know kids deserve that. They deserve to have adults who Can model for them. You know. So there's times even with my boys at home, I'll say, because I for me to just tell them to take a break when they're upset. That doesn't mean anything. So I'll say if my husband's here, obviously I'm not gonna do it if he's not, but maybe I'll say you know what Mommy's feeling really frustrated right now and I feel like I maybe could say something unkind, and I don't want to say something Because in this family we don't hurt people with our bodies or our words. So I'm gonna go upstairs and I'm gonna lay on the bed for 10 minutes and take some deep breaths and I'm gonna come back down when I'm ready to talk in a calm voice and I will purposely say those things to them, because no one knows what anyone else's internal regulation state is like at any point. So it's not like someone's going to read my body language and know that I'm frustrated because this morning I was late and spilled coffee and whatever other things happen. No one knows those things that are bubbling underneath. They just see the behavior. So I try to be really and sometimes even in the classroom I'll do that Like if people, if they're just not listening, sometimes I'll say you know what? Mrs Fisher is going to sit here for a minute and take some breaths, because I can feel that I'm starting to get in the yellow zone because people just really aren't listening, and that doesn't make me feel very good, I don't. That's not what respectful learners do. So I'm going to sit here and wait and take some breaths and you let me know when you're ready, and within seconds they usually are ready.

Speaker 1: 37:41

And that teaches the kids how to handle a situation as well.

Speaker 2: 37:45

Yeah, yeah. Which is exactly why I do it, because then if I don't put the words to how I'm feeling and explain my problem solving through it, they're not going to learn from me just walking away or sitting down or if I'm not explaining it. So I love that quote because I feel like it's twofold it tells us what we need to do in the moment, but it also helps me think about what I need to do to so that I'm ready in those moments to share my call and the other in the chaos.

Speaker 1: 38:15

The other piece that I really like about what you said is the co-regulating versus self-regulating. I mean so many times we just try to teach the child how to self-regulate. Where I mean, it really is about co-regulating, doing it with them.

Speaker 3: 38:31

I mean Shannon just said it so perfectly. I could listen to you all day, shannon. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 38:36

I could listen to you guys too, just so you know this is so fun it is, it really is.

Speaker 3: 38:41

Oh, but I, like you know, even in you said as well that co-regulating piece. You know the goal is, if they don't have regulation, that you teach co-regulation and so that they do get to the point where they're self-regulating. But it certainly is a process and you know, you can think that you, you know, grown a lot and gained a lot with them, and then all of a sudden you find yourselves right back to the very beginning of them having zero regulation. So I, and I also like the piece of you know, making sure that we're in the place and certainly by no means am I always in the right place.

Speaker 2: 39:18

Well, listen, I am not either. I have three boys left and four years apart, and I teach little kids in no way what I want anyone to ever think that by the stuff I'm saying, it means that I don't have moments in the morning that I'm like if you don't get in this car. I feel like I'm gonna yell so loud I actually didn't say this to the boys one time that your friends, their parents and their dog will hear me get in the car. I have to go to work Like I don't want anyone to think because there's a thing we're all human and we all have hard days and so I don't. I never want anyone to think by any of the things like that I say in this or I've done like I've done some PD and Wadsworth on PD days and I've done like the NAEYC professional learning institute. I talk a lot about challenging behaviors and things. We're all human and so we still have to give ourselves grace for being human and so you know, I think sometimes people, going back to social media, people can follow all these parenting and teaching people. That's how you all the things to do, and so you're trying to keep all the strategies in your head and then you lose it on your kids, right, and then you beat yourself up because you're like oh, I was supposed to say this instead and you know we're just human, so I don't have it all together all the time either.

Speaker 1: 40:30

Trust me, you know what I call that. I, in a book that I wrote a long, long time ago. I talk about the parking lot wave. You know, you're like screaming at your kids all the way to church or whatever, and then you hit the church parking lot and everybody smiles and waves.

Speaker 2: 40:47

Yes, yeah, yeah, right, I'm like here we are, here we are at the sitters. It's been a great morning. Okay, bye, love you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:55

Yeah, just slowly. I think grand Everything is wonderful. Yes, yes.

Speaker 3: 41:03

It's like you know they'll be like well, you're a counselor, you have, you know, all this training and everything I'm like. Yes, but I am a human being as well, exactly.

Speaker 2: 41:12

Exactly All right.

Speaker 1: 41:14

Well, shannon and Carrie, thank you so much for being here today. We at Real Talk really appreciate what you do. Teachers and staff are just not appreciated and you really are helping to raise kids and making them into the people that they are today. I've said this before, but I can tell you that the teachers that made a difference in my life and teachers can believe in a child that didn't believe in themselves and take them on a beautiful path in life. It only takes one person to believe in a child and you guys are doing amazing things. So thank you from Real Talk with Tina and Anne, and until next time.