Rock Paper Scissors, Love, Hate, Fear Part 1

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome to Real Talk. I am Tina.

Speaker 2: 0:10

And I am Ann. We recently talked about how to navigate forward when you have to face something so scary. This is a tough one for me to talk about. This is like a gut punch for me. I'm an open book on here, but since we only talk real on here, this one's tough.

Speaker 1: 0:30

This one is really tough for me. I think it's really a hard topic in general.

Speaker 2: 0:35

Even if I just start with a list of things I've had to face to move forward, I don't even know where I would start, because do you start with age? Do you start with how scary it was, or the biggest fear you ever had, and go from there the biggest obstacle? What I do know is that every fear I have ever felt that has paralyzed me in my tracks also propelled me forward, that when I was on my adventure my backpacking adventure of the Kalalao Trail in Hawaii.

Speaker 1: 1:07

That's exactly what I experienced. I think fear can be a good thing and move you forward, but sometimes I think it takes a long time to get to that place where it propels you.

Speaker 2: 1:19

Why is fear so hard to talk about? I mean, we all have it. I can talk about some fears, like when we recently had a bat in our house. Yes, we recently did have a bat in our house again. Oh my goodness, now that's a hit the ground fear, literally. It reminded me of when you had mice in your house. I mean, it is so scary to have what feels like a predator in your house and you are just minding your own business and, without any warning, you are being attacked by something. Yes, it is the worst.

Speaker 1: 1:58

That mouse incident was almost exactly a year ago, okay, but it is still so fresh in my mind, something that seems to sit in the back of my mind, and it has been a trigger in other areas for me more than once. I guess I should say that incident triggered something in me that maybe it's fight or flight is probably what it's triggered at me that I've been really struggling over the months to deal with. I'm still sorting it all out. I feel like I've been stuck in fight or flight mode ever since these stupid mice came in and it's like sometimes I think you don't know a fear is there until something uncovers it, and I think fear is so hard to talk about also at least sometimes for me because when you say it out loud it becomes even more real. If that makes sense, it's like fear on top of fear.

Speaker 2: 2:47

Some of my biggest fears I have just kept deep and dark down inside inside of me because I have not wanted to even Bring them out into the light. I guess you could say because they do become a Stronger, I think, but I don't know. I guess it's good to get them out at the same time, because then they're not inside. They need to be released.

Speaker 1: 3:11

But yeah, I think gives an opportunity to Get back to your real self, your, your whole self, you know, to be able to talk it through. Okay, this isn't really a predator, this is just a small critter that got in my house I'm not the only one that has it, you know, if we take the mice example and you know, really try to work through your real rational self. So I see where it's beneficial to Say the fear and work through it.

Speaker 2: 3:40

I think some of the biggest fears are created in our own minds or from something that previously happened. There's got to be some kind of an association that's been attached to it. Those situations from our past Control us and for some reason, we create a fear that is bigger than we are.

Speaker 1: 3:59

I Think that the problem is that fear interrupts Processes in our brain so it makes it hard to think clearly and then to regulate emotions, and that leads us to be impulsive and have intense emotions.

Speaker 2: 4:14

You know I cannot tell you how many times I've had that happen to me when a fear is just like as small as an and it just grows completely out of control. And my investors in your brain, right, and I can't Regulate my emotions. It's really interesting how it can take over every cell of our bodies. You know I've had plenty of fears bigger than me. I can't even begin to less list them all. But if I had to make a list of fears, they can stop us from moving forward and have stopped me from moving forward many times. I would start with Fear of getting hurt by others, fear of getting rejected, fear of not being accepted, fear of loss, fear of not reaching our dreams, fear of something happening to a loved one that's a huge one for me. Fear of the unknown, fear of things new I mean, there are just so many, but can you think of any?

Speaker 1: 5:17

I think fear of missing out is one that we could add to that list. Uh, yeah, I can relate to almost all of those and I know there are so many others. But as an example for another type of fear, my middle son is literally afraid of most food, like it repulses him and he can't eat certain textures, like literally afraid, almost like an anxiety attack will come on him If you ask him or he thinks he has to try something, literally he'll throw up.

Speaker 2: 5:44

Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 1: 5:46

Yeah, it's been quite, quite an interesting Scenario for us, but that we continue to try to navigate. Luckily, he does not eat a variety, a huge variety of things, but the things he does eat are healthy enough that we try not to push the envelope too terribly much anymore. After we Experience some of these I guess you'd call them fears that lead to repulsion, that lead to physical Sickness. So I would say there are those types of fears too.

Speaker 2: 6:18

Yeah, I mean, my one son is so afraid of dogs I mean petrified and I don't really understand where the initial fear came, because the very first encounter that he ever had with dogs was these two little dogs when we were at our my in-laws house and they just started. They came out of their yard and they just ran straight for him and as soon as they came into our yard where we were, my son just ran, he just took off and these dogs just and he's screaming his head off. And this recently just happened to him again. And I'm telling you what it was a larger dog and if this dog did want to do something to him, I'm not really even sure that I could have done something to protect him. So it was. It was very frightening for me as well because of how afraid he was of this dog, which caused the dog to chase him. So but where he got it I'm not really sure. And yeah, and it came from nowhere, this fear, and it has grown and grown.

Speaker 1: 7:28

You know, we experienced a little bit of something like that several years ago. We were vacationing to the beach and a big storm came through that knocked out power to the hotel we were staying at and it actually dumped those you know those big plastic barrels that you'd use as trash cans. It sat on the beach. It actually swept those into the ocean. It was just whipping stuff all around. And ever since that day Our middle son has also struggled with storms like sobbing and crying. We've worked really, really hard To try to get him to be able to calm down and understand we don't have any control over the storms, but we're safe in our home, or we're safe in the car, or we're safe in the basement, or, yeah, we're safe wherever. We are Reminding him to that. Yes, you're right, it's raining, it is scary, it can be loud, but we're safe right here. So that did a number on him for for quite some time.

Speaker 2: 8:25

Yeah, yeah, that's that association. I was talking about and yeah, and you know it's also and it's this parent thing in me that wants to protect my child and so they don't have an experience, all of these things, which I know is impossible for us to do, but I mean I want the same. Yeah, I know I, but I want my child to be loved what I'm not around. I want them not to be bullied, I want them only to experience love. Isn't this ridiculous that this, look, I mean it's that's impossible. I don't want them to get hurt and I think that that you know, I just want the best for them. I Always and those fears are always in the back of my head that they're going to experience something that's not pleasant or that's really, really hurtful.

Speaker 1: 9:14

I am. I don't think it's ridiculous, I think that's what love does. I want the same, and I feel like my oldest will have it easier than my middle Son with dealing with certain things. You know, my middle son and I are both very similar with our big emotions, whereas my oldest just isn't, and so I think that makes him a little more easy to get along with her to be understood, if you will, and so I think it's so important that we Equip our children, so we do role playing here. This just happened between my middle son and myself yesterday Was trying to help him feel more confident about a situation that happened at school, that if he were to face that same situation again today or tomorrow, that he would feel comfortable and have a couple of different options. And so you know, as much as I want to shelter him and I wanted to reach out to the teacher, I thought you know what the biggest thing we can do is empower and equip.

Speaker 2: 10:13

that's how we chose to do it, but I will tell you the first time we role played with what he thought he should do Laugh out loud, oh my gosh isn't that awesome though, and I guess really cool that you role played with him.

Speaker 1: 10:26

We do. And I think he finds it funny when I try to be the person that he would be facing. And you know, I almost got to the point yesterday where I wanted to say you know when you're performing, and sometimes they say all picture everybody, you know, naked in the room, yeah you heard that I almost wanted to tell him that he or just to say something like picture that you're talking to his butt cheeks. He loves the word, but she sees young yeah, I didn't get there yet, but that is something I would use in my back pocket if the three things we went over yesterday don't stick or he doesn't feel comfortable. You know something to just To help shake him out of the situation. It's nothing super bad that he's going through anything like that, but he takes things to heart and when people say things, even if they don't know us or our family, you know that really bothers him. He's a fierce protector. Actually reminds me a lot of the Michael or from the movie the blind side, if you ever saw that movie yeah, yeah michael or tests off the charts for protective instincts. That would be my middle son.

Speaker 2: 11:35

Yeah, that's my baby and he's the protector of me, for sure, it is a sweet thing. Yeah, yeah, it really is, you know. Back to our emotions. I don't know what the most powerful emotion is. I would think it's love, but then when I think of fear, sometimes it might actually be stronger. I'm not really sure.

Speaker 1: 12:03

I think wow. You know when we were talking about what we were going to be discussing for this podcast. All I can say is wow to this one, because I think, like you said, I think love is among the most powerful positive emotions and I think fear is among the most powerful negative emotions.

Speaker 2: 12:24

What changed my life? More lover, fear, I don't know. I mean, do you have an answer for that? Wow, that?

Speaker 1: 12:35

wow, is that a loaded question? The only answer I can come up with Is that I truly believe it's individualized and even season by season, because it's been both for me. Love has changed my life in beautiful ways when I found my husband when I had kids, but fear has just as powerfully at times changed my life.

Speaker 2: 13:02

Yeah, I think that love was so absent for me as a child and as an adult In my younger adult life that I think I would say that Fear is a child was my life. But now it's love with my kids. You know, I think fear paralyzed me so strongly for decades that I think that was powerful. But love is what changed me for the good. So it reminds me of one of my favorite musicals, wicked. I don't know if you've ever seen that, but I actually went to New York and saw Wicked. One of my favorite songs from that musical was sung by Glenda and Alphaba, and I still picture Kristen Chenoweth and Adina Menzel singing these lyrics, but they haven't been in those roles for a while. So the name of the song is called For Good and some of the lyrics go like this but because I knew you, because I knew you, glenda said I have been changed for good. And then Alphaba says and just to clear the air, I ask forgiveness for the things I've done you've blamed me for. And Glenda says but then I guess we know there's blame to share. And they both say and none of it seems to matter anymore. Who can say if I've been changed for the better. I do believe I've been changed for the better and because I knew you. And then Alphaba says because I knew you, because I knew you, they both say I have been changed for good. And that's what love can do. Love can change us in our core, the very being where we live. I can think of some people who have changed me that deeply. But when I think of change, I think of something much deeper. When I think of knocking down some of the scariest fears, I can think of some key people that have made that difference in my life. First it would be my kids. I have never loved that deep before my kids. I think love is stronger than fear because if I want to play the Rock Paper Scissors game, I think love would win.

Speaker 1: 15:32

I really love that. I don't really even have anything I can add of value and substance from what you have just shared. I think the song and I think what you said after that is just beautiful. I guess. If the only thing I could add is I believe love can change so many things, I really do. I think it is so wonderful, beautiful, life-giving, life-changing. I don't know, though, if love can make any and everything right or better. I hope that makes sense. I don't think that love can cure everything, because I think if it could, there would be some instances where people would still be here with us. I guess where I'm going with this is you can't save someone from themselves. You can love them, so, so, so much. You know what I mean. That's the only thing. I think it is so powerful. I just I want it to be the be-all and all. I just don't think it is.

Speaker 2: 16:45

You know, that's really interesting. I have loved a person in my life so very much who has gone in the wrong direction, and I really hoped and believed, with all the love and time that I could give this person, that it would make a difference. And it didn't. And you just, you know, I don't know, you know we plant seeds and I hope that if it doesn't make a difference right now, or even in 10 years from now or 20 years from now, that it does make a difference and maybe that person wouldn't be as bad or, you know, be in, maybe they would be worse if it wasn't for the love that they did receive, and that's because, they're looking at it and it's not always about the love that we're giving. It is about their receiving, and maybe they don't want to receive it because of their own. What's going on within them?

Speaker 1: 17:53

Isn't that so good? I'm so glad we're talking about this.

Speaker 2: 17:57

Yeah, I mean, there's so many layers to love.

Speaker 1: 18:01

There are a lot of layers to love. That is so true.

Speaker 2: 18:05

I think that one of the things that went wrong most in my life and I think my kids taught me that love can come without fear I mean I think I associated fear with love so much so that I really did not want to really even love. I mean anyone can have sex and I think that there are layers of where love falls, like what we were just talking about. Layers Like there's that bullseye. You know friends are in the certain area and but friends can be in the inner circle too. If it is a deep friendship that has loved you so deeply, it has changed your core. But I think a partner, your kids there is nothing for me like my kids. I mean, they are at the center of the center and I will never love anything on this earth more, except my animals. Now, they're pretty equal. I think they are pretty good. Listen, I get that. You know. What is really interesting for me is I love the vulnerable, that's, the vulnerable people in my life so deep my animals. I have saved the kids that have needed me. I'm that person I would run to the fire for people. I'm that person that would do anything to help people. I've had a couple people in my life, who would have done anything to help me and my fears when I wasn't ready to change. But you know, they were there and there is nothing more deep of a connection that seeing someone who is scared to death for whatever reason, and you are the one that's standing in front of them.

Speaker 1: 19:42

That was you for me a year ago. Absolutely without a doubt.

Speaker 2: 19:48

Tina and I was glad and I'm always there for you.

Speaker 1: 19:54

I don't think I'll ever forget that, truly so, thank you.

Speaker 2: 19:58

Well, I love you. I love you too, ian, and that's what we do for friends. You know, I've been on both sides of that, you know, and I will never forget the people who have helped me out of a fear, and I will not forget the people who I helped find their way out of theirs.

Speaker 1: 20:17

Absolutely. It is a gift to be able to walk with someone and to have someone walk with you in those hard seasons, in those glad seasons and all the ones in between.

Speaker 2: 20:30

Why this has been so hard for me was I never want to live in my fears again. I mean, I lived decades there, so there were so many that were paralyzing. It really does take me back to the scariest times in my life. When we talk about this, I mean I am so good now. If you knew me then and you know me now, there are times to revisit. When I was a preacher in the jail system, I held hands with women who actually some committed murder, some were prostitutes and some did you know some pretty horrific things. But they were in a desperate. They were in desperation, they were in pain. They were very hurting people. They saw themselves for what they did instead of who they were. We're going to stop Rock Paper Scissors Love, hate, fear Part 1 right here. Next week we debate more on which one wins. These two episodes left me with a deeper understanding of love when I've never really had before. It sounded like when I came into this episode that maybe I did understand love more than I really did. But when I came out of this I came out with a completely different perspective of love by the end of Part 2, an undiluted understanding of love. I've never had something like that before, so it was really interesting to kind of break it down. So many times people say that love stinks or it hurts to love, and that's true. In reality, many things can't love, which causes what we are experiencing not to really be love at all, or a very watered down version of love Love with abuse, love with rejection, love with games. It hurts, it just plain hurts. Listen to our next episode and let us know if you have a different understanding of love. There is a quote that states fear can intimidate us, pin us into a corner and keep us from being all God created us to be. The good news is, love does conquer fear. At least that's how I feel after listening or actually being a part of these two episodes. But honestly I can't believe what a different perspective I'd have coming out of this. In the second part I liken fear and love to an object. That causes a deeper understanding and a visualization that just came to me during the episode. I'll leave you with first John 4 18. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. Love you guys. Thanks for listening. See you next time.