How Pain and Joy can Live Together Part 1

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome to Real Talk.

Speaker 2: 0:10

I am Tina and I am Ann, and the two of us right now are really struggling. We're having you know what we talk real here, and the reason we do is because life is hard, and that's what Tina and I have just been talking about before we went live.

Speaker 1: 0:29

So it is hard. Adulting is not always fun. I've been without my husband for the last six days because he is away on storm duty. I don't know how single parents do it. I am spinning between, you know, laundry and dishes, and this kid here and this kid there, and school and homework and baths and this and that, and the lawn and the repairs and the what I don't even.

Speaker 2: 0:49

There's just not enough time in the day and you realize how much the other person does do when they're not there.

Speaker 1: 0:57

Exactly, you know I used to think oh well, you know, in the morning my husband just has to get breakfast together. Okay, well, getting breakfast together takes like 15 minutes and packing lunches and you know just all the things, and you just realize how much of a team you really are, until one is missing. Absolutely right. And let me tell you I'm drowning over here in stuff, all of the stuff.

Speaker 2: 1:24

I'm so sorry, tina. I mean I feel like I'm drowning just from today. I had one thing after another happened in the last two days. Today was an exceptionally difficult day because we spent the day at Cleveland Clinic with my son, who has the George syndrome, and I, tina, I could cry and I am, because he struggles so much and it just rips my heart out and they, you know, he actually said today to the doctors I hate the George syndrome and the doctor was saying but you're just such a special kid. And he said I'm not special. Now, it's kind of funny, not that part of it, but he was trying to manipulate me at that very moment to get me to let him play tackle football. And he thought that he could say well, if I am special, mama would let me play tackle football. So there we go. But the point of it was and yeah, he's a really good manipulator at times, but aren't all kids really? But it was just ripping my heart out because of the a lot of the things. The discussion was hard. The psychologist from the clinic was there and we had some really tough discussions and it was. I'll tell you what my heart is. Just it's just mush right now.

Speaker 1: 3:13

I can tell and I just I feel so bad because I I can't imagine what it's like for him. And then I can imagine in one way, just my mama heartbreaking for my kids and for you and yours. And then you know your mom. So it's 10 times as much because you're with him every day.

Speaker 2: 3:34

Yeah, and his struggles are real. I mean, the thing that's going on with him right now is just trying to keep up with his peers and trying to be as typical as he can be, and he's just not able to. And then they told me today that he's like a three year old in a 10 year old body, and the doctor and the psychologist was trying to explain to me about his behaviors and his words to me and why that's happening. So, anyway it was. It was just a hard discussion all the way around and some tough realities to hear, you know. And then our discussion today is about joy and pain can coexist and honestly, I was. I was thinking we got rescued, I don't have a family. We did, we, and especially, that's exactly what is going on here. I mean, we went all morning with the pain of you know the realities of what's going on with him, but yet I had a lot of fun and joy with him at the same time. So I mean you, they're just all coming at you at the same time all the time. It's yes.

Speaker 1: 4:43

It does seem More so. I would agree with you. And it's so hard because I know, with my counselor I've said I hate my anxiety. I haven't always had anxiety, for the record and she said, no, that's going to become your hero. You know, at some point, and in a tiny way I can see that and In a bigger way it's like. But it's really hard living this way and so you know, at times when it's really flared up and so I can just relate to his pain about hating it. And you know, I'm almost 40 years old and I'm saying that and for a sweet 10-year-old to be saying and feeling that, you know, I haven't quite figured out how to, I guess, accept and embrace what is and would just say, just sit with your son in the you know and how he feels. I don't like the anxiety that I have. Do you know what I mean? Like I don't like the way it feels. I don't know that I'm ever gonna like it. I hope I don't always have it, and so maybe just sit with him and just empathize, like yeah, you know, what I got out of that was that we need to have some more conversations.

Speaker 2: 5:54

We're gonna have a lot more conversations. I think that you know the them. Him going to counseling is a thing you know he needs to go. But I Need to sit across from him more and ask these exact questions. I need to say hey, buddy, you said that you hate the George syndrome. Let's talk about that, cuz I, you know I don't want. He actually attacked me for a little while in there and it really hurt. It hurt hard. And I told him on the way home. I said you know, I know you hate the George. I hate to George, but you also hurt my feelings in there and he's like I'm sorry, mom, I didn't mean to. I said well, I appreciate that, because sometimes I have to make hard decisions About you because I love you and it's not because I'm trying to be mean on purpose.

Speaker 1: 6:56

So you know I Wish it didn't have to be so hard. I, you know, as much as I feel like, as much as it's like the movie wonder, you know, let's have you seen that movie?

Speaker 2: 7:11

I have and I know that book.

Speaker 1: 7:13

Okay, you know, it's like in there, the little boy, his face is deformed To an extent. You want to fit in. Yes, you want to stand out, say with your talents or with the gifts that you've been given, you know, or the. You know what I mean, but you don't want to stand out for a reason that makes you stand out if that's making sense. And so, yeah, I feel, I feel what he's saying, because he probably desperately sees, you know, other people his age, able to do this or or that, you know this or that, and he just wants to be able to to do that. And so maybe the thing is you know, well, what do you hate about to George? And maybe he'd give a few examples, and maybe, you know, maybe it would lead you to be like I Understand, but the thing I love about you, you know, you know, kind of counter it with With something based on what he says. I don't know what he would say, but it does. It does break my heart, just because life is hard in and of itself and when you add the other layers on top of it, it just gets harder. And nobody wants hard. I don't want harder for anybody else, I don't even want it for myself.

Speaker 2: 8:29

And he also said and this also broke my heart he said why did God let this?

Speaker 1: 8:35

happen. You know what? It's a valid question, yeah. I do, because it is a very valid question. Why would you want anybody to suffer so bad? Why?

Speaker 2: 8:51

Well, I tried to tell him, you know, and I think he was trying to say that he was blaming God. You know why did God do this to me?

Speaker 1: 8:59

Okay, and I can see it. I mean I'm with him and I can see what I mean. I can see that.

Speaker 2: 9:04

And I said to him you know, buddy, but there were bad choices that were made by people that caused this to happen. And, yes, god allowed those people to make bad choices because, you know, there was some drinking and some drugs and things that were involved when in utero and FASD is a big reason that a person can get to George syndrome. And I told him you know that's, there were bad choices that were made and, yes, god did allow that to happen. And that is sad. But I try to let him know that, even though he has something, because it was really funny. He looked at me, to the doctor and he said and she's got autism. I thought that was the funniest thing. I was like, yeah, I do, but it was the way that he did it, like he was trying to equalize me with him and so the capacity. That was just so funny. But yeah, I mean God, just a hard it's.

Speaker 1: 10:10

It's hard. You know it's hard for me to wrap my head around certain things and I'm 39 years old, so I can only imagine how hard it is for him at 10. And so he's asking questions and you're answering it. So great, and you know to not. I'm definitely not wiser than you by any stretch. I just feel like to that last part that he said. You know, when you said because other people's bad choices, you know, unfortunately impacted you and God allowed it and he's going to and is doing something beautiful, the thing I see that's beautiful about it is you you as his mother and his family. My goodness is he loved and supported and cared for and truthfully, I don't know what else you know you need besides those things.

Speaker 2: 10:59

Yeah, well, I hope he can see that that you know it's focusing on the love and instead of the negative. I really hope that he can. We're really trying.

Speaker 1: 11:14

You know something that my oldest who's 10, he started doing again was I, and I don't. I haven't done this in a while, but when I do it consistently, it really is a good thing at the end of the day keeping a journal of three good things from the day you know. Or you could make it three things you like about yourself for the day, or you know, he, like my son's been doing it in his bed on his own the last couple of nights. That's just something that maybe that will help shift, Maybe that'll be something that clicks for him, Maybe it won't, you know, but it is there, is it's you know, a proven thing, not in neuroscience but in like psychology that if you focus on the good, it really does start to become more of what you remember. And I can tell you from experience that gratitude has always pulled me from the depths of whatever I'm going through, so that I know, okay, I'm in a bad place, I've been here a little bit longer than I should. I'm going to have to start going back to the gratitude. The three good things you know, the you know, start to shift my focus and it always helps, and some days it's even as little, as I saw this purple flower wildflower in my yard. It made me think of my mom, and it was the only one around. So, anyway, all that to say is I really believe there's. There are little things sometimes that are so, so much bigger than we realize, and maybe if you guys did like a fun little journal together, maybe, maybe that could help him, Maybe that could help him.

Speaker 2: 12:46

It's just a thought Some people, they really just stay stuck in that negative and being angry at God and not understanding the value of who they are. So, gosh, I really want him to.

Speaker 1: 13:03

Well, I think I think, if you're up for it and trying it, for try it for a month and see if you notice a difference. It's. It's been so good for me when I've done it consistently for months at a time.

Speaker 2: 13:18

I think I might do that with him, because I'm going to be having someone on ones with him and that might be some good things to do, and I could just start with you know, let's, let's talk about some positive things about you, and because right now I want him to focus on him and finding the positive things within himself.

Speaker 1: 13:39

And help him see it, then, if he can't, and then you write him down and then you talk about it or you could put like a jar out and you know things I love about you and each day or week or every however you want to do it, you know you add something to it to help him remember when he forgets. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:56

Good stuff Now I mean. Reality is just, it's so hard, and being able to accept what's going on that's right in front of us is some pretty tough hurdles.

Speaker 1: 14:09

And you know it kind of reminds me of my Hawaii trip. I could relate the trail to life, all the bumps that are meant to break you and shake you and make you fall down, make you want to quit. You know all of that was in there. But I think if we can keep our focus on the end, whatever the end looks like for anyone listening, whether it's heaven, whether whatever it may be, the end will be worth it and we can't give up. There's going to be purpose in that pain.

Speaker 2: 14:44

Sometimes it's just bed at the end of the day.

Speaker 1: 14:48

Yes, you know what? Last night, I'll be completely honest with you. Last night day five of being a single parent, if you will, and shout out to every single parent listening seriously, you go from four or five in the morning to 11 o'clock at night and you're just done. I slept so good at night because I'm absolutely mentally and physically exhausted. And it was 8.30 last night and I told all my kids you all have to go to bed right now. I will. The one just crying and whining and being so loud, the other one fighting every single thing I say, and I've been keeping my cool, just so you know I've been really proud of myself for that. But I'd had enough. And then my oldest was just very spacey last night and couldn't focus for some reason. It happens on rare occasion and I just said you know what, It'll just be best if you all go to bed. I'm sorry I can't be in here and snuggle tonight. I need some time to myself. And they all just knew that. I meant, okay, okay, we really need to go to bed. And so they did.

Speaker 2: 15:56

Well, after the hospital today it just got crazier and crazier. I mean, for one thing, our doctor had told us that we weren't going to have her anymore. And she's an amazing doctor and I'm going to be so sad to lose her. But she's going back to palliative care with children, which is, you know, which would be so difficult. But on top of that, then we lost our dentist, then we, because you no longer takes their insurance. And then my daughter and son both take an after school bus to a program and they call and they tell me that they broke down and they can't get them. I'm not home and I'm supposed to figure out how I'm supposed to get them. So I'm frantically making phone calls from the doctor's office and then the school is supposed to administer medicine to my daughter and they can't do that until I get the pharmacy to refill the prescription that the doctor wrote. And the doctor wrote a 1.5 pill and it still states one pill. And we have to wait all the way till, like you know, almost middle of September before it can be refilled. And I'm just like screaming in my head like are you kidding me? And this went on. I go to pick up my daughter. Finally I get there, I'm able to get her at two o'clock or 1.30 and I'm like but I'm taping my podcast at 2. Sweetie, I just need to get you now and get you home. And she's like well, can't you just drive me yourself to this after school program? And I just my head went down and I about almost cried and I was like I need five minutes, just five minutes to myself. And fortunately I did get that. But I understand what you're saying, tina. I mean, it's getting harder and harder to feel even sane these days with everything that's going on.

Speaker 1: 18:09

You're right, I think chaos of school back to school brings a little bit of chaos. You know it disrupts now the summer routine because you've been in a groove for several weeks, several months, if we're being honest, and I am just so sorry and I'm telling you what there's no truer saying. Then when it rains, it pours, and sometimes it thunderstorms and lightning all at the same time, and then you feel like you're caught up in a tornado. I am so sorry that that's a lot of heavy, real right there.

Speaker 2: 18:39

Yeah, and speaking of thunderstorms, how did for our listeners? Tina had a situation with water recently and I was wondering how that went with the storms that just came through. We had some pretty major storms.

Speaker 1: 18:56

Yeah. So I will truthfully say it is not so joyous being an adult or owning a home. Sometimes. I have felt this overwhelming feeling the past two weeks on and off, just completely overwhelmed. It's just been too much for me to handle, with back to school, my husband being away on storm duty and water in the basement. We have this ongoing long lasting construction project that the city is doing in front of our home, all the way down our street. That involves rerouting storm sewers and redoing the road, and there's this just noise level that I'm tired of my house shaking all day long. I'm tired of the noise I hear the beeping, even when they're not here on the weekends, and it's all just building up and I'm trying to make these repairs on the outside of my home without my husband here and learning all these things to try to keep the water out of our basement with all my kids, and it has felt like too much. But the good news is I think that the water basement problem is mostly solved. I think I know what the issue is and so we're just working toward that and hopefully the overtime that my husband's made from the storm duty will help pay for the repairs or whatever we're going to need to be doing to make more permanent fixes. So that's kind of where we are, and I will say that I am proud of myself because I really did fall apart. At first, the first day I was a mess and then after that I started to pull myself together.

Speaker 2: 20:38

Well, you know, the last time we spoke, you had just gotten off that trail and it was had just been a minute, basically, since you had been there and we were, you know, just kind of catching up and you had found a piece that you had been looking for. But ever since then there has been so many things that have come your way to try to maybe rob you of that.

Speaker 1: 21:05

Yeah, I would say yes, but I haven't lost that piece and I'll tell you that when the stuff kept piling up and happening over and over, much like you were talking about today when I feel like I don't know how to fix something or when I don't understand why something is happening, I go into panic mode. But I caught myself after the first couple hours and I began talking kindly to myself, working through it all and just starting to clear my head and asking my dad or my neighbor you know the right people for what is my next step? You know I am a specialist, yeah, I learned. So I was trying, I'm trying really hard to model for my kids that, yes, we can control our big emotions. So I'm working really hard at that. Where I have maintained my peace and where they've noticed and my husband too is in the areas of being able to not stress, yell in these, in this situation. So I caught myself. Normally, I feel like I would almost be a little bit on edge for the entire duration until the problem is fixed. But okay, I noticed I'd fallen apart a couple hours and then a couple of deep breaths and then I realized, okay, I think I've got it under control, at least for now. Let's try to work on these emotions, let's reel them in and understand that I am not the only one that this happens to, and I keep telling myself and I really do believe this anyone can be happy and nice when things are going well. I think it matters more, though, how you treat others, even when things are crumbling around you, and I keep reminding myself that that's really good.

Speaker 2: 22:52

You know I've always tried to. This is really funny. I just heard this thing how this guy said that he has chosen in life to not ever get back at anything in anger retaliation, to try to handle things in peace. And that's quite the concept really. I mean to be able to, yeah, yeah, to be able to deal with things and still maintain a peace within.

Speaker 1: 23:24

Yeah, and, to be honest with you, other areas that I feel like I've seen some big growth for myself is not having to explain myself to others, or I don't have to reply to every text, every email that comes through. Not everything deserves my energy and attention and I can't give it to everything and everyone, and it needs to come first to those who live in my house, my family, and so I'm really proud of myself for certain scenarios where normally I would want to go out of my way to make sure that. No, that's. You know you have the wrong impression of me. I can't believe you're saying that to someone else like you think I am this way or that way or I, you know, know it was misinterpreted, but I've come to just a piece that I don't have to fight everything. You know I'm secure in who I am and I know who I am and what my character is, and you know I'm not that concerned anymore about having to prove it.

Speaker 2: 24:28

Like you said, you're still have that peace in the midst of turmoil.

Speaker 1: 24:33

Yeah, I do, and I'm not perfect and I don't think any of us are, but I definitely have been holding on to it, for sure, and trying to remind myself of those things. Anyone can be nice when things are good, but it takes even stronger character, if you will, to turn it around and still be kind and still be nice and all of those things when the world around you or your world around you is falling apart.

Speaker 2: 25:05

You know I've been thinking a lot since the last time that we had talked about your Hawaii trip and living in the joy and pain and sitting in it at the same time has been a message to me, since we had taped those and you would also. You had said that you realized that you were only living in the pain and not letting the joy in.

Speaker 1: 25:30

So I would say, for me it was. I could feel the pain taking over and it was predominantly that. So when you know like it's beginning to get harder and harder to see the joy, that's when you know you have to make a change. At least, that's when I know I have to. So I prepared for my Hawaii backpacking trip 18 months in advance, but, truthfully, it was on my heart for years prior and, just you know, just a thought that stayed in the back of my mind and I didn't know when I would do it. I just knew I wanted to one day. And so when my mom was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, that's when I knew I would need something to give me something to look forward to. That joy and life is a choice and I think we have to make sure we're balanced and you need to know that you can live with joy and pain simultaneously, and many, if not all, of us will and do.

Speaker 2: 26:23

I have said a million times, you have to let the pain in, to let the joy in, but I lived so stoic for most of my 20s, 30s, 40s that I wasn't letting anything in and really what came out of that was I kept everything so far away from me that in reality, I was letting all my past hurts to be the last thing I felt. I was not allowing myself to feel it all and I allowed my past to dictate my every minute of every day for decades and I allowed myself to continually get in horrible situation, that situations that compounded the pain, which numbed me even more, and it became this vicious cycle that all that was allowing to happen over and over was for pain and negative experiences to happen. It goes a step further than just letting the pain or the joy in. I continually got into situations that reenacted the pain or ended up with people who were not good for me.

Speaker 1: 27:29

And I think that you do hear about that. I don't want to say frequently, but it can happen and I think there are two scenarios what you just described, where a pattern repeats and then doing the opposite of what you experience. I have always been very stubborn and determined to figure it out and how to beat the cycle. So I would say the way I've handled things is the complete opposite of the way that you did in that example, and I'm not saying either right or wrong or one hurts more than the other, because there are some downsides to being extremely stubborn and wanting to do everything the complete opposite of what you saw or what you know, and it feels like you're constantly climbing a mountain. But I just think those are the two scenarios. I'm not sure that there is any middle ground. It's either you either have a lot of the time your parents say that drink, for example, and then you have the kids that either see if it was a good experience or a bad experience, and then they go one way or the other. It's one way or the other.

Speaker 2: 28:39

But I've realized over all this time that I've wasted, now that you said all that. I have said this over and over. I am living and I am loving and I am doing it all fully and I have my radar up and I don't let negative in and I'm the complete opposite that I used to be when I just lived in pain. It's like that person who was sexually abused as a child and they continually put their bodies in situations that are so hurtful to themselves and you can tell that they allow the hurts from their past to define them.

Speaker 1: 29:15

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I just got to say you are so incredible and who you are today is so beautiful. I would encourage anyone listening who is struggling, whose experience just pain, abuse, neglect, whatever the pain looks like for you to not give up and to keep going to find what works best for you to heal and to help break the cycle, because we are both living proof of that.

Speaker 2: 29:39

Yeah, it's getting past those definitions and forging through. You just did that on the trail.

Speaker 1: 29:46

I sure did. Those 22 miles gave me a firsthand account and spoke so deeply to my heart to remember end goals and the beauty there. So the trail is what I envision, say, as the way to heaven, and it's going to be hard, unfair, difficult, brutal. You may want to give up, you'll cry, you'll want to turn around, you'll want to go back, but you know that you need to keep going because the end will be so worth it and you can't give up. You have to go through the brutal to get to the beautiful.

Speaker 2: 30:17

It's growing in the midst of pain and choosing life even though it hurts so bad, and listening to you talk about that. Oh my gosh, Tina. What an exhilarating experience. What a beautiful thing to go through.

Speaker 1: 30:32

Thank you, you have said it exactly right. It's just, it's beauty in the pain. You know there's always something good in that. It's hard sometimes it's hard when you're in the midst of it to see it that way, but it really truly is there and it really truly one day will be worth it.

Speaker 2: 30:55

It's knowing for sure you are going to hurt, but in a different, more productive way. It's what we talked about the pain and the joy, living together instead of just living in the pain or only letting the pain in.

Speaker 1: 31:08

Yes, it's like having peace in the middle of pain. You can think they're opposite, but they can and do coexist simultaneously.

Speaker 2: 31:18

We are going to wrap up the first part of Joy in Pain and next week. I can tell you it is really an amazing episode. We have a jam-packed episode of information and we have some books that we refer to that I think everybody should read, and we have some other podcasts that have some really great information regarding joy and pain, coexisting and not bringing our childhood into adulthood. I mean, it's just an amazing episode. So we'll just see you next week. Just tune in, all right? See you next time.