Helping our Kids Through Trauma can Trigger Our Own Abuse Part 2

Speaker 1: 0:08

It just made me a better mom. I think my abuse made me a better mom.

Speaker 2: 0:14

Oh, absolutely, you know. So there's a cycle. My mother was being abused as well. Again, I am one to say well, it doesn't matter, she doesn't give her excuse the way I was raised, because I know that there's people out there who say, oh, it's not her fault. I mean literally people will say to another family, it's not her fault, it happened to her, or it's not her fault, it was the drugs. Well, no, because then that would give me permission to treat my children the way that I was treated and I won't like you, I will never do that. I don't know what I'm doing, but I definitely know what I'm not going to do. I mean not know what to do, but I know what I'm not going to do. And I think that that's been one of the things that I've struggled with with not having a mom. You don't have that person to go to and say I don't know what to do, like, how do I handle this situation? What?

Speaker 1: 1:19

should I do here?

Speaker 2: 1:20

What should I do there? I mean, you know, people say oh, there's no handbook as to parenting. You're right, there's not, but for majority of people. They grow up seeing something Like I want my kids to look at me and their dad and how we raise them, to know that that's the way that they want to raise their kids. I mean, I think my daughter's going to be better than me because she had me to support her and, even if I was like not sure what to do, at least she had something better than what I had, and so I feel like she can improve on that as well. But yeah, I have I've heard that excuse. Oh, you know it wasn't her fault. No, no, we're not playing that. We just are not playing that, but you know it's. I know what I don't want to do and I would do that myself, because I think I have been challenged by a girl having like such a strong will and then a son who, who is developmentally behind and has autism two separate beings I mean each kid, no matter what. You have three that that are on spectrum and you know they're different because it is a spectrum. Yeah, I didn't, again, know what I was doing, but I knew what I didn't want to do and so I was learning as I go, but I found myself not hitting because I, you know, but I wasn't the mom who, oh, you're just going to go in the corner. I mean, I've spanked my you know daughter on their behind, but it wasn't aggressive. Do you know what I mean? It was like, you know, in the beginning, as they're, you know, you smack their hand, you smack their thing. But at a point I was like, well, you know, I don't want to do that. If I don't have to, let me try this. You know other ways. And we did. You know the corner, we did. But again, she is strong willed. But then I found myself, as she was getting older, yelling just constantly.

Speaker 1: 3:21

I was a yeller when my kid my, when my older two were young, that was my thing was yell and yell and I would yell and lecture forever.

Speaker 2: 3:35

Oh, yeah, yeah, and I, I taught myself and I'm saying like this was probably in the last five years. She's a sophomore in college right now, but you know, when she was in high school, at some point it was like you know what I'm tired of yelling. I just I don't want to yell anymore. I don't want this to be. So what I'm going to do and I did this literally, I said I'm going to give myself a timeout because I don't know what to do, so I'm going to take my time out and I'm going to walk away because I need it.

Speaker 1: 4:06

My mom gave my sister into the system After she had been the punching bag. Then I became the punching bag and so I guess I became her outlet. And you know, I I just can't ever yeah, I mean no, my kids have done things to take me to attend. Oh, yeah, or even more than that. Yep, yeah, these kids really push me in ways that it's rough, yeah, and I am so proud of myself. I am doing much better the second time around that I did. The first time around that I was younger and I don't know. I guess I still had a lot of things I needed to work through. Yeah, but now that I am where I am in my life, I handle things a lot calmer.

Speaker 2: 4:59

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:00

And I really check myself before I enter into the situation with them. Most of the time, and a lot of times, I turn into discussions versus lectures.

Speaker 2: 5:12

Right, right Right.

Speaker 1: 5:14

And I've learned that. I've learned that to include them in the conversation and try to find out why. Because, like, even when my daughter has done some really crazy things, she recently had told her teachers that we kept her in the attic and made her sleep with the bats, which the principal knew that wasn't true, right. But you know, she took it to a level where she said, you know, oh, we're going to have to call authorities if that's true. And she said, oh, it's true, so it was kind of interesting to see. So my question with her always is what is your reason for doing that? What did you think would happen? What did you want to happen? You know, because when they, finally, she's like I was kidding, you know, and it's like, well, that really wasn't a funny joke. I mean, you have the biggest bedroom in the house, the nicest bed, for real. That leads to a beautiful attic, by the way, that has an office in it, not bats, it's actually heated with carpet and everything and a couch. And I'm like why, why did you present it this way? And she's just like I don't know. I think that she didn't know, but I want her to know that what she did was wrong, but I don't want to beat it out of her. I don't think me screaming at her is going to do anything whatsoever.

Speaker 2: 6:54

Right.

Speaker 1: 6:54

So I've been trying. Now some things do turn into a lecture, but when I feel like it needs to be a conversation, that's what I do, because I don't want the same things that all that happened to my kids that happen to me.

Speaker 2: 7:09

Yeah, yeah, same. I mean, that's where, when I learned how to not yell, I you know, I said that to her too and I said, listen, I don't want to yell. That's how I grew up, and I don't want to yell.

Speaker 1: 7:22

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:23

I just, I just don't so.

Speaker 1: 7:25

I'm done yelling. I'm too old for this. This is my third. I feel like it's my third childhood. That's what I call it. You know, I had my childhood and then.

Speaker 2: 7:34

I did it with my older ones yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:37

And now I'm doing it with my, my grandkids. So yeah, I'm done. I don't want to. Yeah, I want to do it a lot calmer.

Speaker 2: 7:45

Right and I'm the same, like you know it. Just I don't know like you just come to it and you're like I just don't want this to happen, I'm just so done with it and it just again it goes back to the I don't know what to do. But I know what I don't want to do. And so it's hard because you're so triggered by things that you remember the reaction that you got had you done something which you know my daughter was going through her stage. You know she was a moody teenager, she was going through that you know, typical stage, but yet my reaction was so quick as to you know how it happened to me, when things happened to me, even though, like what she was doing and I was doing as a kid was, you know, appropriate, I guess you know having those little moments.

Speaker 1: 8:39

We were teens. We made stupid choices, like all teens do.

Speaker 2: 8:43

Right, and so it's. You know I just again I'll go back to it I always say I just knew what I didn't want to do. I have learned as I've gotten older, to go ahead and reach out and say, hey, I had my I think it was my sock. Well, my friend Patty she's my soccer, was my soccer coach, and she has an older daughter who is married. You know, she's in her twenties and I think my daughter was I think it was in the beginning of my daughter is with her boyfriend and I'm like, how did you handle this? Like what did you do? And like that was probably the first time that I really reached out to say how did you do it? Okay, you've been through this. Tell me what you did, tell me how you were, and that was only within the past year and it, you know, I have to say it felt good, it like really felt good to be able to get someone else's. They've been there, they've done that so that I know that it's normal. Great, I wouldn't have known had I really not asked. I would have had. You know, you come up with these scenarios in your head because you know you don't have anything else to go by. It's these scenarios. You feel guilty, you know. You feel like this guilt, like what's wrong with me, why can't I get these basic things that I need to call somebody and say something basic and say, okay, what'd you do? But-.

Speaker 1: 10:10

You know, as an autistic person myself, I have spent most of my life mirroring other people. Oh yeah, you know, I watch what other people do and that's what that's how I do it. My mom, my adopted mom, did not not only teach me how to not do things you know, she did everything wrong so I knew not to do what she was doing. But beyond that, she didn't let me cook. She didn't let me in the kitchen because I wasn't good at it. If I poured something, I spilled it and instead of trying to help me learn and help me do it right, teach you. Yeah, I had no depth perception, so I would always pour over the and it would go everywhere and she would just say to me get out of the kitchen.

Speaker 2: 11:05

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:07

So you know, I didn't know how to do laundry. I didn't learn well. So and I do learn by doing, by the way, right. So it would have really helped for her to do things with me and I think eventually I would have learned, because I spent some time as an adult when I was raising my younger, my older two, with a family where I would go into their house and they were really great with me and they would cook and afterward they would do all the dishes and they would sweep their floor and they would do all this stuff. And I learned by watching yeah. I'd? Yeah, I learned by watching and my mom didn't even allow me to be in situations where I would watch, so she just wanted me away. My aunts when I was growing up would always ask my mom why does Anne spend so much time in the bedroom? Why all the time do you just have her? Because if I did anything wrong, it was go to your room. I just stay in my room, sometimes all day. They would say well, I don't really know what her reason was, but I just think that it was easier for her to again like she did with my sister. But she didn't send me out of the house, she just sent me to my room and it was just her way of being able to deal with life is just get rid of me. Now I don't do that with my three. I don't know if it's like I have a punishment for myself or what, but I mean I am in it for the long haul and we're going to talk about this and talk about this and we're going to try to figure out what's happening. And I love when my kids I don't care if my kids make a mess, that's part of being a kid but I wasn't even allowed to leave the house without my shirt tucked in and everything looking perfect, and she would say to me look how you look, look at you. And now I don't even own something nice. I never buy anything for myself, I always buy for them. I haven't put things in my wardrobe. I have the same pants that I've had for over 10 years or more or whatever, and that's just the way I do things for myself. And I think that she would be disgusted with me. When somebody said to me, when I've got my first tattoo, after she passed away, they said to me well, what would your mom think?

Speaker 2: 13:57

Well, I don't care.

Speaker 1: 13:59

I don't care what she thinks. So it's just the way that I was raised and I always did worry about everything that she thought everything. And even after I was married and I was raising my kids and all the decisions that I made were about her, I always made decisions about her and well wait, because I was so afraid of her that even after she passed away, I even felt like she was watching me and the decisions that I had to make were about her still. So, being able to rid of somebody who has so abusive to you, to your core, and even your breathing felt like she was controlling me. That, yeah, I mean that control and not having control over your kids and being allowed to let that go and let them be that's a big thing.

Speaker 2: 15:01

Oh, it is. Yeah, I think for me it was 2014 when I blocked her from contact. Oh, okay, okay. So it took me time and we weren't in the same state Again. My husband was military and being out of the state gave me some kind of courage to do it because I wasn't moving back. But it wasn't until 2017 was when she called social services on me because I didn't let her have contact and she made a false report that I was making my kids sick. They both have genetic disorders. I can't make them sick with what they have. There's just, you know, that's not possible. So that case was closed. The geneticists and all the doctors that see them were outraged that somebody could pull that, and that made me get really scared. And not because I was scared that, oh, am I doing this to my kids no, I'm not doing that but the fear of am I being a good parent? I started to question everything how I'm parenting, and I know I've been doing well.

Speaker 1: 16:19

But that fear of somebody else, you know.

Speaker 2: 16:22

Making accusations like that and knowing that I grew up in such an abusive environment, I started analyzing everything every time I'm parented.

Speaker 1: 16:33

Am I?

Speaker 2: 16:33

being too overprotective. Am I not allowing them to be a child? Because I wasn't, you know, able to really be a kid? I want them to be a kid. So what am I doing to allow them to be a kid but, at the same time, how am I protecting them? How am I not being able to be a good parent? Am I disciplined?

Speaker 1: 16:50

Oh, that's so good, it's so.

Speaker 2: 16:53

It just was everything. It was like you know, and so you know how we got on the subject and I and you're right, I reached out and like showed you this. You know it was a tiktok video and the creator is crooked counselor Cooper and she's on tiktok and Sure her, her wind video that I saw was that you know it was. It's okay to have those questions, do you know what I mean? It was okay to question myself because I had been so abused that you are natural reaction is to be defensive. Even with our kids were very defensive. Anytime they do something, I'm, I get very defensive. Why shouldn't? I mean I'm the parent there, the child, am I doing the right thing? You know we and it was. You know she said in there you know you have to forgive yourself and it is okay to be this way because that's how we grew up in that manner. But it's at the same time she said, and what I, what I you know had happened is you start to Look at yourself and say I am better than that. Okay, now do I need to do to make sure again that I know what I don't want to be like and what I don't want to do, and you kind of go okay, well, again, am I doing everything right? Am I, you know? Am I being the parent that I'm supposed to be? And after that, services was called, I mean, my god, everything that I did, everything is like Am I good enough to be a parent, and am I good enough to do this? Like you said, you, you know, you, you know you're doing a damn good job and you are happy and proud of yourself for doing a damn Good job, and it took me a while to feel that, and so, and they constantly tell me they're like you know what, you are such a good mom, and I'm like am I really, though, are you sure I am? Because you, you, you don't want to be, I don't want to be like my mom, I don't want to be like my family. Right, you know, I wanted my own identity, my own things, but they always said you know, you have no idea how good of a mom you are and. I think it has um Taking me probably this long as my daughter went to college and I went. I didn't go to college and I'm like God, I must be doing something right. Here's my kid going to Penn State. This is great you know what I mean and Doing something right. And she's older, she's 20. So she, you know, when she was 18 is when I shared about my past. She didn't know I had any of these problems growing up, which is good, because then when I got that feedback from her, it kind of, really kind of it made it so much more. She didn't know my past. So when I did talk to her about that and the things that happened to me and I said this on another podcast where I shared, you know, I had these great teachers and I was trying to, you know, learn from them and do this, and she's like mom, I'm so happy that they raised you the way that they did and that they raised you. And she said because I'm so happy the way that you raised me, and so I'm like that was a boost of confidence, knowing that you know what. I really must be doing Something right, even though I don't know what I'm doing. Whatever it is. It must be right, you know mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 20:34

Yeah, you know, I would have done anything for people to step up for me and it's really interesting that you're saying that you know those were the people that raised you. Yeah, and I can. I think some people would be surprised for me to say you had a hand in raising me because I didn't come right out and tell them or let this teacher know yeah, you made such a significant difference in my life that you actually had a hand in raising me. No, I mean, all teachers do to a certain extent, but I don't think that they realize how much they do when, right, the child isn't being raised at home. Right that they should be right. So it really does make a big difference. Now, another way that I also learned how to be a parent. And well, I mean, because of all the abuse I had gone through, I went into psychology in college, okay, and I ended up getting a degree in psychology in my undergrad. Now, my executive functioning and all this other stuff just isn't there. They said that I wouldn't even graduate high school. So, and it's, it was a real thing. I mean my, my Working memory and everything is really bad. It's not a lie. They they were not, you know, making that up and trying to discourage me, but I mean the neuro psychs and all that stuff were accurate, but I they all underestimated me, mm-hmm, and I then got my masters and I became a director of a battered woman's shelter and I worked in the jail system and I worked with rape crisis and I actually rent, helped run the hotline and I Also worked with abused kids. That was my first job, but I mean, every job that I had Was actually a learning for me and I think it was therapeutic for me to help others right and it actually was Treating myself. It was. I was there doing therapy on myself while I was doing therapy with other people, I think, because I would help them in many situations that were very similar to the things that I had gone through, from rape to sexual, all kinds of sexual abuse, to Physical abuse, and even there were some young children that I had to go to the hospital with and hold hands with while they got a rape kit, and I'll tell you what that doesn't leave you no and but I was able to be there for that child and I'll just never forget that and I wish and it kind of it was very therapeutic in that the even though I didn't have those things for me when I was young, you know I I was able to do that for somebody else and it was it helped heal that part of me inside.

Speaker 2: 24:00

So you didn't feel triggered by that, because that's what's all I I did yeah, I did now.

Speaker 1: 24:07

Now, if I do those things, my triggers Are really not that there like they were back then. I Did get triggered more often back in my 20s, 30s, yeah, but now no, I I don't know why. I think that I'm just a different person and maybe I've just matured or I peeled so much Within me. This podcast has really helped me. Writing my book has really helped me, and I Don't like counselors, I'm not gonna. I mean some people. Counseling is great for them and I I Absolutely think that counseling is wonderful and I know that it helps lots and lots of people. For myself and I did have a counselor that helped me and was way out of the box for me, even took me home with her, and you know, she helped me out of a really, really Bad situation that was very abusive and I always you know I I still write her a letter every now and then a letter know how much I appreciate everything that she did for me, mm-hmm, but I am the type of person where I get more out of helping somebody else. Yeah then somebody helping me, mm-hmm, and that's just the way I'm wired.

Speaker 2: 25:31

Yeah, I. I think Probably in in the last eight years is when I could say so. If you asked me 10 years ago to, if I were to do that, you know, help somebody, which I would have helped anybody you know hold their hand or whatever. A Lot of people said you should have been a social worker, you should. I said no, I couldn't, because I would be too attacked, I would, number one, be triggered by it and then my reactions are gonna be my personal reactions and and not someone who can Be there for a child and just that child. Because but it wasn't until I think the most Appreciation came again when my daughter turned 18 and told me how, you know, these people raised me and I'm like you know that was such a thing that hit me that all of a sudden I almost Instantaneously grew up. I went from the hurt 14 year old to the 40-something year old where I can understand now and separate myself and say, oh yeah, you know that did help and you know my book is about that, you know it's. It's to the women who raised me and they did not know, like you said, they, they don't know the significance that they have because the things that they're doing are Minimal. And now I am probably a better mom. You know, I'm Still kind of treading the water of now my daughter's an adult and what do I do? And, like you know, she's got this boyfriend, who is a wonderful kid. I mean he's when she's not with us. I want her to be with him because I know he will protect her the same way I would protect her. I think a lot of us don't guilt because we have these Worries about being a parent. I think that there's a lot of guilt behind not knowing how to parent, not knowing what we're doing and and all that. That it's, you know, until you understand that it was okay that you had these things, it's okay that you felt these way, this way, and it's okay for your reactions, as long as you catch them.

Speaker 1: 27:35

You know, the protectiveness is Is something that I craved, yeah, and I really always wanted to feel protected and. I want my kids to feel protected. Yeah, and that's probably the biggest thing that I am about right now with my kids, especially with them being so young and I have a 28 year old that still comes to me and wants mama.

Speaker 2: 27:59

You know that's it. You know you're doing something right.

Speaker 1: 28:03

I, my 28 year old, and I have just the closest relationship and she still lays on me and you know she wants her mom and we she actually had. She is an artist and a makeup special effects person and so she wrote in her handwriting because we have like this little phrase with the two of us it's called and now I do it with my other three Morse. We just say Morse, and it's because we said I love you more and most. You know that's great More and most. So we combined more and most and we made it Morse, and so we just say Morse to each other. So she had written on her you know, love you, morse. And her handwriting I have it. It says I love you, morse. And then she has the moon and the sun put together and her handwriting I love you to the moon and back and you are my sunshine, we're our two things. So she drew all that together and then so in her handwriting she has it and in my handwriting she has it written right here. So she wanted to do that for her 18th birthday.

Speaker 2: 29:23

That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 29:24

We had our own, each other's handwritings tattooed on ourselves, so I mean, that was really that. Was you want to talk about a gift? That was a really big gift.

Speaker 2: 29:34

Yeah, but Russian post season film.