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Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
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I am Anne and we have an amazing guest today.
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Sasha Sedman has written quite a few books.
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Sasha is a cherished voice in children's literature.
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She lives in Washington DC with her husband and two kids.
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I am so thrilled to have you on today.
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Thank you so much for having me, and I absolutely loved your story and I'm thrilled that we were able to connect on your platform and chat about everything, including adoption.
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Oh, this is going to be amazing.
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Even though you do have several books out, I would like to focus on one particular.
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Now we're going to talk about all of them, but First Day, an adoption story, because it does hit so close to home for me.
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I've adopted all five of my kids, definitely yes, and every one of our stories is so different.
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You say First Day depicts the journey adoptive parents take to become a family with their child, and this is so beautifully written and illustrated.
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I have to tell you, I opened your book and the first thing that I saw was the words born in my heart forever.
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You will stay when I called myself your parent that very first day.
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That is a beautiful way to start your book.
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Yeah, I had a really good friend who is working in social working and when I initially wrote this book it was very much inspired by my own adoption story, which was from infancy at a hospital with a mom and dad, and I shared it with some friends and I realized that no one else I knew who was adopted had the exact same story as me, and so we scratched it and we started all over again and my friend in social working said this would be amazing if you could relate to older children as well.
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And so we made a really conscious decision as I was writing this book, to not name parents, to not name ages, races, situations and to really just allow for an analogy where parents could really fill in the blanks to their own child's story, fill in the blanks to their own child's story and then at the end also write in their child's story, because it is so special.
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And I've talked to my mom about it many times and she said she wished she had something like this where she could have written down little memories and had even my birth family write notes in it and given it to me as a gift and read it to me as a baby and child, and I love reading it to my kids and they're biological but I love telling them the story about how mommy became you know, how grandma became a mommy to their mom, and I think it's just really fun and it's a great way to talk about it and open up those conversations.
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I love how the book is written because it is, you know, adoption story, but it's also so unique I mean, it's for everybody, but unique at the same time, and that was really cool that you did that.
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It was definitely difficult, because I know that everyone's adoption stories are so different.
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I have friends, who were adopted by single parents, I have interracial families, I have same-sex families, and it's beautiful, and I see so many books out there.
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I personally was read Tell Me Again About the Night you Were Born, which was the book my parents read to me.
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I loved it and it depicted my story, but it didn't depict anyone else's that I knew, so I wanted to make sure that it did, and I do have a few Easter eggs in there that resonate with me.
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I have in the children's bedroom.
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I haven't told anyone this, but so you're going to get a sneak peek.
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In the child's bedroom there's a Raggedy Ann on the shelf and there's an elephant on the shelf, and the Raggedy Ann is something that my birth mother gifted to me.
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And now she also gifted them to my children.
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So that's my little Easter egg for me.
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And I had a really dear friend who passed but he was adopted and when I was pregnant with my son, his parents gifted me with his little elephant.
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So I wanted to make sure that those little pieces of my story were in the book.
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But it allowed for other children to enjoy and see those images and that maybe they could pick out little things about their story, like the first time they did their handprints with their parents or their footprints or finger painting, and those are just such little core memories that parents have when they're becoming that family unit.
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All the firsts are so important.
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You know, one of the things that I love about your book is the calendar, and you ask families to circle their first day together.
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So can I just say that I've been on.
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You know, as I've said, I've been on both sides of this.
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I'm adopted and I've adopted on.
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You know, as I've said, I've been on both sides of this.
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I'm adopted and I've adopted all of my kids.
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25 years ago I adopted my first two and then I've adopted my three littles, which it was official in 22, but we I've had them like eight years.
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So you know, it took a while, it wasn't fun, but it took a while.
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And I can remember the day that I met my kids for the first time, my older two especially.
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They were four and three and we met them at a McDonald's Playland.
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They were playing and you know, we met them briefly and then one of them started screaming dad, dad.
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And Steve was like you know, look who is calling for their dad and they're not, you know, responding and we're both looking around for this dad.
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That was him.
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He didn't realize that it was him because that was the first time any of us had been addressed as parents.
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We laughed so hard about that.
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Oh, I love that story and it's such like it happens in the most random places.
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I mean, I used to have like this ideal, as I became a mother, of like what it would be like and what you think, but sometimes those little moments in a McDonald's are those big moments.
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Yeah, I mean, we still laugh about that because it was just you know, we had no idea.
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It's the first time that we were ever called parents, and those firsts are just so you know.
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They really are a lifelong memory.
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So you had an open adoption and I find that so interesting to me.
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I did not have an open adoption.
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None of my kids have had open adoptions, so maybe you could tell me a little bit about your story.
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Yeah, well, my parents were in their 40s and so they went to an agency and they were told they were a little bit old, so they had a lawyer who told them hey, reach out to everyone you know, reach out to friends, family, extended family, just everyone.
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Let them know that you're open to adopting and see what happens.
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And they reached out to my mom's aunt and she said well, I have a friend who's seven months pregnant down in Florida looking for an open adoption.
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Said, well, I have a friend who's seven months pregnant down in Florida looking for an open adoption.
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And so my parents flew down from DC to Florida and met my birth mother and my birth sister, who was 16 at the time, at an Olive Garden.
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And my mom said that she went back to the hotel room with my dad and said I want that baby and she just fell in love.
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They flew home and then I was born in late August and she spent about the whole month of August with my birth mother connecting with her, connecting with her belly and she.
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One of my favorite stories is she was in the delivery room with my birth mother and when I was born they swaddled me and handed her to my birth mother and my understanding is my birth mother pushed me away and said give her to her mom and my mom was the first one to hold me.
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And it just the selflessness, the connection that they had.
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And I actually recently heard my mom is currently visiting me right now and she told me on this trip we had gone to Vegas for my sister's wedding and we were all sitting at this big table with all of her wedding party and a guest had come up to my mom and said so who are you?
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Because we don't hang around, we're not from the area and my birth mother looked at her and she said we are their mothers and they are our daughters.
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We are their mothers and they are our daughters.
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And my mom just said it was so classy, it was so beautiful.
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I felt so warm because my birth sister was not adopted.
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My birth sister was raised by my birth mother and we have different fathers and then I was raised by my mom and dad.
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But I just I remember that and I always remember sitting in the kitchen with my mom calling my birth mother on Mother's Day and my mom talking about me and saying our daughter is so beautiful, our daughter, and it was.
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I never felt fearful of talking about that and she's never met my children.
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She's never met my husband but we text, we talk.
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She sent them birthday gifts.
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We have a really beautiful relationship and I'm really lucky to have it.
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I have a thyroid issue that I was able to text her about and say hey, do you have issues with your thyroid?
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My birth father has an allergy to amoxicillin, which my children and me both have.
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If I had abandonment problems because of my adoption, if I felt abandoned or I felt angry at my birth parents and I have to say that has to be further from the truth I know that every situation is different and every child will have their own emotions about it and I think that that is so valid and it needs to be said.
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But for me and my experience, it was so beautiful and so open and I was able to ask the questions and they were able to answer and I think that that was a really important part of my story and I think other people have more questions that maybe don't get answered.
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My husband was adopted by his father oh my goodness.
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And even though his mother tries to answer those questions, I know if they're not answered from that person, sometimes that wound just never feels fully closed and fully healed, and I've seen that firsthand with him and his experience.
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And I also have friends who were adopted by single parents and who just found out about their birth family recently and ended up finding siblings and flying to meet them and it was wonderful, but they went.
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You know, we're in our 30s now.
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They went most of their adolescence and early adulthood without having that connection and they're now having those answers.
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So they're working through those things now.
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But every story is different and that's really what I wanted to depict in First Day, because every story is is so different and every child's experience, every family's experience is so different and diverse and beautiful and complicated, just like every other family's journey.
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It's not just adoption, it's everyone's family is different, and so being able to put that out there so that people can connect with that, children can see themselves on the cover, I think is just really important to allow for that conversation and to just start it and allow kids to feel all the feelings, have all the emotions, you know, feel safe in their environment, feel safe with their mom, feel safe with their dad and, you know, call the mom and dad for the first time in a McDonald's.
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Yeah, and it is.
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There's so many mixed emotions with adoption.
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It's very, it can be very complicated, but I think that that gift that your parents gave you all of them collectively together to make that decision, to keep it open is it's so beautiful and that, you know, for your birth mom I would think, and I don't know, that might have made her feel better and more of a relief, knowing you know I'm giving my child to these people to raise and have them be her parents for her life.
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And I don't know that's such a hard decision, I'm sure, for your birth mom and what a relief that must have been for her to have such a great relationship with your adoptive parents.
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Yeah, I definitely think it was the ideal.
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My mom actually, after adopting me, became an adoption agent for most of my life and is now retired, so we really had a lot of adoption around us, and the stories that I heard of different adoption situations where it was supposed to be open and it became closed, or if I did not to give children you know all of the information, or any information you know I really felt lucky to have that situation.
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I did, however, have a moment when I was 18 where my birth father confronted me saying that he wasn't sure I was his.
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That's why his family was never forward with me and we did a DNA test.
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It came back.
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I had texted my birth mother saying, and she said nope, I know it, you're good, if you want to do it, go for it, but I can tell you and he wanted to meet me immediately.
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His family did, and it took me until I was 23 to go down and meet them because it was just a lot to digest and I needed to process that information and process it with my parents, and you know they told me that he had wanted that when I was little and they had said, no, I'd been poked and prodded enough, and if I became of age, that's a decision I could make and that's, I think, something that was really helpful, not just in that scenario, but giving me the reins in a very controlled, safe way, I think in general, is good parenting.
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I mean, you should never let your kid drive a car when they're five.
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But, you know, turn the car off, let them sit in the seat, touch the wheel.
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It, you know, negates a tantrum when sitting waiting for, you know, chick-fil-a.
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But you don't know what you know.
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You're opening up like a you know your box of memories and your box of what ifs and could be's and all these different things, and you don't know what's in that box.
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I mean it's so uncertain and not everybody's story.
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When they go and open that box is a great story and you know you, it's funny because when you're little and you think especially and I did know that I was adopted but you think, oh well, my mom's, this princess and she's you know all these wonderful things, and then sometimes it just doesn't work out that way and it can be heartbreaking in some respects.
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Oh, 100 percent.
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And I think managing those expectations if a child does want to pursue that is important.
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I think managing those expectations if a child does want to pursue that is important, and being able to tell them that they're allowed to feel whatever they feel.
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But that also means that their biological family is going to feel how they want to feel and that they might not feel the same and they might want different outcomes.
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And, just like any relationship, it does take two and we can want things really, really badly.
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And if they don't want it too, then we can work through it on our own and all we can control is our own thing.
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So if we choose to leave that door open, we can, but they might not always do the same, or they might want that door open and we might not feel ready to do that just yet.
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Yeah, we had to find mine.
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I mean, we kind of knew bits and pieces because you know you get this file, they got this file with me and we found out some things and we knew that it probably wasn't a great situation.
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But then my adopted dad had passed away when he was 11, when I was 11.
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Sorry.
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And so, yeah, it and he was my person, and so then life kind of, you know, just blew up after that.
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Nothing was great, and then I went a really bad path and so then, and I think, a lot of the things that had happened to me before I was adopted, and then here's my dad gone and everything, it just kind of all came together and I wasn't able to handle it very well and I'm also autistic on top of it, so it just kind of hit me really hard.
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And so then we did go on this search for my parents and I don't think she was very happy that we found her, but we did through an investigator and I did have a very brief relationship with her and it was not that great.
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I'm glad that I did it.
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It was something that I needed to do and I think that a lot of people do, because it really closes those.
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You know, I don't know.
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I don't know.
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There's a whole chapter within ourselves that belongs to that part that we need to address and have maybe some closure on honeymoon idea of the princesses and the castle kind of go away and it gives you a little bit of a reality check where you're like, okay, like there's, there's a reason I was adopted.
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There was a reason.
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You know that my parents are my parents now and you know I couldn't believe that more.
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My mom and dad were meant to be my mom and dad and that's who were meant to adopt me and raise me and give me all these skills and right, and that's how it was meant to happen.
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But I do think finding birth, family or information, their story, I think helps figure out who we are, because that is like a puzzle piece that we feel like is either missing or just a little bit out of place.
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And all of my kids have, even though one's 30, one's 29, and then these three are 11, 9, and 8.
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And every single one of them has addressed this issue with the biological parents very differently.
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And my older one, she really needed that, she had to have that connection, that connection.
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And my 29-year-old, she still has yet to want that.
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She just doesn't want anything to do with that.
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We talk all the time.
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She's just, you know, I'm her mom and she's good with that and she doesn't need that.
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And my younger three are siblings, and so they all.
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They ask a lot of questions and I answer them because I think that that's important, age appropriate.
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And we've gotten more and more, you know, direct with the answers, the older that they get.
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But that's something as well that they're going to have to figure out as life goes on.
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So, and you're right, being able to just say, hey, you know, this is on your decision as you get older and what you want to do.
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Yeah, and I think that that like the age appropriate honesty, I think, like I've talked to some of my friends who are biological children and they have biological children themselves and I ask them and I say, well, with your mom, do you have a closer relationship with her about things that you guys can talk about?
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Or does it create kind of a weird gap if there's things that she just won't talk about, and it's always well, yeah, if there's stuff we can't talk about, it always kind of creates a bit of a gif or a gap, and so it's like, you know, it's the same with adoption.
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So my dad is a little bit more closed about me talking about my birth family.
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He feels a little bit more threatened about any relationship that I have with my birth father.
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He sees himself as my dad.
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You know, he just that's what he wants.
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He doesn't.
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He kind of wants to forget the biological side of it, and so it's hard because I can't really talk to him.
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I have to, you know, kind of secretly text my birth father happy father's day, or, you know, if he does contact me, I can't really talk about it with him, which is sad and that's a loss, but I feel lucky to be able to ask my mom questions and talk to her and you know, just have that.
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That's biological cousin and it's cool.
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It's really interesting to have such a mixed kind of fun family.
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You know there's more branches, more people to love, more places to go If my kids want to travel.
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There's more people, I trust, around the country.
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You know that's awesome.
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You know, just be a call away, a little bit closer, so it's nice, it's a really nice connection.
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But everyone's is different and so, like you were saying, with your children having those questions and then your daughter not really wanting that and just feeling like, nope, that's my mom, I'm good, that's great, that's perfectly normal.
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I feel like everyone's experienced how they want to handle it.
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Yeah, like awesome, like I love the.
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I love when kids and even adults just advocate for themselves, like this is what I need and I'm good, like that's just, it's so important.
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And when you're in an adoption setting for children to just be like, hey, mom, can I ask about my birth mom?
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It's like sure, honey, what do you need to ask?
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Like advocate for what you would like to know.
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You know we will be as open as we feel is appropriate, but we will always be honest about the information.
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You know, and it's just, it's great, it's so awesome because it's raising those independent thinkers where they can just say what they need.
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You know, be out, there, be the squeaky wheel.
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You know, when calling insurance companies, it's just, it gives them strength and a lot of like defensive stuff.
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Oh, absolutely oh.
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And my older two have no problem advocating yeah, but you know there's another side to it too, because it wasn't about being threatened so much as a mom.
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There was some of that there if they wanted to connect with their birth mom, but the other part of it was in their situation.
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It was not good, it was just not good.
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I knew what was on the other side of that door and I wanted to.
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You know, as their mom, I want to protect them.
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I don't.
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You have to be so careful in how you address those types of things and when it's okay to like open that door a crack and then to the point where you're ready to say, okay, you can go through and this is what's on the other side and I'll be there for you as you go through this, but it's scary.
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When she got remarried, his dad was like I'm going to adopt this baby boy and he's just a phenomenal person.
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But when I actually got engaged to my husband, his mom pulled me aside and told me some really gruesome details about his biological father and said don't tell him.
00:22:46.625 --> 00:22:50.159
And I said oh no, no, no, no.
00:22:50.159 --> 00:22:51.655
I said you need to tell him.
00:22:52.170 --> 00:23:02.090
He holds so much guilt, thinking that he was why his dad didn't want him, and he's been holding that.
00:23:02.090 --> 00:23:05.460
He's 39 years old and he's been holding it his whole life wondering why his dad didn't want him.
00:23:05.460 --> 00:23:07.353
You need to open up.
00:23:07.353 --> 00:23:16.598
And I went home with him and I said, mike, your mom told me some things would you like her to tell you or would you like me to tell you, because I know she's okay about it?
00:23:16.598 --> 00:23:21.103
Okay, this is your information and I've been given it and I don't want it.
00:23:21.103 --> 00:23:28.894
I don't want to hold it from you because I feel like, as someone who's adopted, the worst thing that happened was when people kept secrets and knew they were secrets.
00:23:28.894 --> 00:23:29.535
Oh right.
00:23:29.535 --> 00:23:36.636
So I'm like you know, if you do not want this information to come from your fiance and you want it to come from mom, that is completely your right.
00:23:36.636 --> 00:23:39.641
I right, I am letting you know there is information that you deserve to know.
00:23:39.641 --> 00:23:45.978
I'm open to telling you what I am aware of at this point, but you and your mom need to have a sit down conversation.
00:23:45.978 --> 00:24:03.577
He asked to tell me and we spent probably until 3 am just talking, crying, coping, just, and I could physically see it coming off of his chest of just unaware of the situations, of what his mother went through, of what he went through, his family went through, and it was just like.
00:24:03.577 --> 00:24:09.502
Like it brings tears to my eyes now because just thinking about it where it really is and it's like when is the right time?
00:24:09.502 --> 00:24:11.164
Is it when they're in their late 30s?
00:24:11.164 --> 00:24:12.526
Is it when they're 10 or 11?
00:24:12.526 --> 00:24:13.926
Is it when they're out of high school?
00:24:13.926 --> 00:24:20.654
They're out of high school, like it's really.
00:24:20.674 --> 00:24:27.357
It's so hard as a parent to know when to stop protecting them from information that you know will be hurtful and you know will be hard for them to hear and it's scary and it's unknown.
00:24:27.357 --> 00:24:32.435
And each child, I know, is different and has different emotions and different feelings.
00:24:32.435 --> 00:24:40.423
You know big feelings, little feelings, and it's like when do I, like you said, open the door and let them walk in and let them know that I will be here?
00:24:40.423 --> 00:24:42.488
It's like when is that right time?
00:24:42.488 --> 00:24:44.011
Is there a too late?
00:24:44.011 --> 00:24:45.134
Is there a too soon?
00:24:45.736 --> 00:24:50.134
You know all these questions and, again, it's not just adoption, it's life, it's raising children.
00:24:50.134 --> 00:24:53.563
When do you tell them about the things going on in the world?
00:24:53.563 --> 00:24:58.894
When do you tell them about politics?
00:24:58.894 --> 00:25:00.259
When do you introduce all of these things that are so scary?
00:25:00.259 --> 00:25:02.045
And what if they find out on their own?
00:25:02.045 --> 00:25:03.810
What if they find out on social media?
00:25:03.810 --> 00:25:09.522
What if they do a 23andMe and find out things from a person that I know is not safe?
00:25:10.210 --> 00:25:12.055
But I couldn't control that communication?
00:25:12.075 --> 00:25:22.781
You know, there's so many what-ifs, there's so many thoughts of what could happen, what should happen, and, as their moms, all we want to do is protect them and we want to be there.
00:25:23.484 --> 00:25:29.801
And I had someone recently tell me she has a 31 year old and she said I just want to go back to when a hug would fix everything.
00:25:29.801 --> 00:25:42.971
And I just feel that because right now my kids are at the age where a hug fixes everything and it just one day that's not going to fix everything, one day that's not going to help them with grades and it's not going to help them with college tuition.
00:25:42.971 --> 00:26:10.991
You know they're going to need more and we're going to figure out how to walk the path together and you know, one day they're going to walk through these doors that are scary and I'm going to hold their hand and I'm going to be there and I'm going to try and get them prepared and give them enough skills in life to be able to handle those situations, but really it's an unknown, yeah and that's really all that we can do as parents, and it's harder the older they get to be able to let go of those reins and let them All.
00:26:11.031 --> 00:26:12.693
Three of my kids are special needs.
00:26:12.693 --> 00:26:16.439
They have autism and ADHD, dyslexia.
00:26:16.439 --> 00:26:22.994
They have all the things I think like from A to Z, and there was a lot of trauma.
00:26:22.994 --> 00:26:24.199
There was a lot of trauma.
00:26:24.199 --> 00:26:34.323
So you know, it's just such a complex situation and every day we have to ask how are we going to handle this?
00:26:34.323 --> 00:26:42.090
And you know, honestly, I could be doing it wrong there.
00:26:42.090 --> 00:26:47.323
There could be days where I should have told them something or I should have, and.
00:26:47.323 --> 00:26:57.494
But I'm doing my best and I think that we all and I think you know adoption is can be in a very selfless self.
00:26:57.494 --> 00:26:57.895
It's.
00:26:57.895 --> 00:27:16.054
It's not a selfish thing where you're trying to, like, bring in these kids and take over this situation from this other family, and you know, and I'm and it's not like that and we could be really messing up along the way, but I think that we're really trying to do our best.
00:27:16.513 --> 00:27:16.694
Yeah.
00:27:16.694 --> 00:27:21.064
So I think that's all that we can ask of ourselves and of our kids is just do our best.
00:27:21.064 --> 00:27:36.032
And then tomorrow we're going to do our best and maybe it'll be a little better, and my mom tells me she goes you're going to try your best not to make the mistakes I made, and then your children are going to try not to make the mistakes that you made, and then it's just a cycle where we're trying not to do those things.
00:27:36.032 --> 00:27:40.954
You know my mom was never great about holidays and I'm now going overkill.
00:27:40.954 --> 00:27:44.977
And for all I know my kids could be like whoa mom too much.
00:27:44.977 --> 00:27:48.838
Right after Thanksgiving, the trees going up like absolutely not.
00:27:48.838 --> 00:27:51.519
When I grow up, I'm putting the tree up the day before Christmas.
00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:54.601
You know something that they deal with.
00:27:54.601 --> 00:27:59.943
But you know we're just, we're doing our best and we're being honest as much as we can.
00:28:00.064 --> 00:28:03.586
And my parents oh, go ahead, sorry.
00:28:03.586 --> 00:28:05.185
Yeah, no, that's what my parents did.
00:28:05.185 --> 00:28:14.231
They tried their best and they were honest, and that's all I could ask, because that's all they could do you know I can't ask for people to do more.
00:28:14.251 --> 00:28:20.233
As an adoptive parent, one of the best gifts that anybody can give me my kids can give me is just to call me mom.
00:28:20.233 --> 00:28:29.176
You know, I mean from the first time I've ever heard it, and it never gets old, it is just the most precious word.
00:28:31.180 --> 00:28:40.820
I know my mom had a moment when I was, I think, two or three, where my birth mother wrote them they were writing back and forth for the first two years of my life and said I'd really like to meet Sasha.
